Monday, January 28, 2013

Sunday Times anti-Semitism – on Holocaust Memorial Day


Last week a Liberal Democrat MP by the name of David Ward found himself in a bit of hot water for stating, quite boldly, that ‘the Jews’ (all of them) had failed to learn the lesson of the Holocaust. He wrote upon his blog (now removed):
Having visited Auschwitz twice – once with my family and once with local schools – I am saddened that the Jews, who suffered unbelievable levels of persecution during the Holocaust, could within a few years of liberation from the death camps be inflicting atrocities on Palestinians in the new State of Israel and continue to do so on a daily basis in the West Bank and Gaza.
Outrageous, you may think. But we must remember that the Liberal Democrats have form on this: they are, after all, the party of Baroness Tonge, who not only declared that she might have been a suicide bomber had she been born a Palestinian, but has a tendency to speak of the ‘Israel lobby’ as a worldwide Jewish conspiracy: “Once they have decided to go for you, they will go for you,” she once disclosed. “I bear the scars.” And then she chillingly prophesied: “Israel is not going to be there forever”, she warned, because it ‘will lose its support and then they will reap what they have sown’.

So David Ward and Jenny Tonge are Jew-hating peas from the same Illiberal-Undemocrat pod. To both, there is an undeniable correlation between the current Middle East geo-political conflicts and the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Nazis. When questioned on his meaning and intention by choosing to juxtapose the two, Ward helpfully clarified, saying: “It appears that the suffering by the Jews has not transformed their views on how others should be treated.”

So, in summary, Israel is apartheid; the Jews are evil; Gaza is oppressed; the Palestinians are innocent victims. It’s all akin to how Hitler treated the Jews. And what better time to state this than on the approach to Holocaust Memorial Day?

As disgusting and disturbing as this may be, it is astonishing (really, utterly alarming) that Rupert Murdoch’s esteemed Sunday Times decided to commemorate such a sombre day with the same strain of anti-Semitism. The Gerald Scarfe cartoon above features Benjamin Netanyahu as a big-nosed hunchback, constructing a grotesque security wall with the blood of Palestinian women and children (and President Obama appears to be cemented in as well). It carries the caption: ‘Israeli Elections… Will Cementing Peace Continue?’

This is usually Guardian territory (see here and here).The target is not religion, but race. The Guardian rarely misses an opportunity to vent its bile for the only democracy in the region. Now it is joined by the Sunday Times, insulting, denigrating and defaming Jews worldwide. There is, as ever, no mention of the slaughter and bloodshed in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Bahrain or Egypt. There is no consideration of the thousands of missiles that rain down daily upon Israel from Gaza, and not a whiff of the terrorist incursions of Hamas or Hezbollah. There is complete ignorance of the need to protect Israeli civilians against Palestinian terrorism. The Sunday Times cartoon legitimates such terrorist attacks; it seeks to justify suicide bombs against the evil Israeli regime, just as Jenny Tonge has reasoned. Like Guardian cartoonists, Scarfe would never dream of portraying Muslim leaders in such vile caricatures, or denigrating Arabs or Islam. 

Questioning Israel’s wholly necessary security policy in this crude fashion would cause offence on any day of the year. But to publish such a cartoon purposely to coincide with Holocaust Memorial Day – while Prisoner A26188 is touring schools and media outlets to remind us of the very face of evil – is a blood libel; a vicious assault on the memory of millions, and an offence against all morality.

125 Comments:

Blogger John Thomas said...

- and very hypocritical, but then, hypocrisy (or rather, gross hypocrisy) is an inevitable ingredient and inescapable feature of the middle-class (educated, media, politico) "liberalism" that controls our benighted society.

28 January 2013 at 10:02  
Blogger Laurence Boyce said...

"So John Ward and Jenny Tonge are Jew-hating peas from the same Illiberal-Undemocrat pod."

Firstly, his name is David. And secondly, that is an absurd (and offensive) extrapolation - as absurd as anything those two may be guilty of.

28 January 2013 at 10:20  
Blogger scottspeig said...

Your Grace,

While there may be anti-semitism in the world, I do sometimes wonder at how easy they (the commentators on anti-semitism) get offended.

Take the cartoon for example, How is it really anti-semitic? It isn't. Rather it is accusing the Israeli govt of building peace on the death of Palestinians and for the population voting for Netanyahu. This is more political than racial.

While there may be anti-semitic bias in the timing or what-not, your charge (imo) would not stand up without inference hence my charge that the commentators on anti-semitism do get worked up rather easily.

Also, surely you believe in free speech which ought in itself allow anti-semitic views to abound and you ought to defend their right to say it??

28 January 2013 at 10:21  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

28 January 2013 at 10:36  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Your Grace,

An interesting article.

Re the cartoon, the artist left out a long straggly beard, the small rimmed glasses and the nose needs to be hooked a bit more. And where is the hat?

Re, the Israeli election. I think that the press - the guardian in particular- were suggesting that the Knesset would 'lurch' to what they describe as being extreme right parties such as Jewish Home.

In actual fact this did not happen, as centralist parties did well. Hence it upset the narrative and perceived political wisdom of the Guardian (which is never wrong btw).

28 January 2013 at 10:37  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Scottspeig,

Firstly, the cartoon alludes to sterotypes of Jewish people in the past, hence why it could be seen as offensive by some.

Secondly, it seems a bit questionable to publish such a cartoon yesterday. I think that is similar to the collective outrage people had on this blog about the university student president who refused to go to the war memorial service and who wrote a stroppy letter to the university chaplain.

28 January 2013 at 10:41  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

David Ward and Jenny Tonge are not only seen as anti-semetic racists but increasingly the Liberal-Democrats for supporting them.

People need to distance themselves from the Spirit of Munich enveloping the Lib-Dems.

28 January 2013 at 10:45  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Mr Boyce

His Grace wrote at the top of the post;
"Last week a Liberal Democrat MP by the name of David Ward found himself in a bit of hot water for stating, quite boldly, that ‘the Jews’ (all of them) had failed to learn the lesson of the Holocaust. He wrote upon his blog (now removed): " It's called a 'typo' dear boy and you base most of your argument on an error?!

What is even stranger is that "The Liberal Democrat party has denounced Ward's statements. Telling the Guido Fawkes blog: “This is a matter we take extremely seriously. The Liberal Democrats deeply regret and condemn the statement issued by David Ward and his use of language which is unacceptable.”"

It appears his pronunciations went beyond the pale even for the Liberal Democrat party itself!

Does this enlighten you further or are you entrenched in your views!

Blofeld

"Take the cartoon for example, How is it really anti-semitic? It isn't.(May Ernst suggest a cartoon with Mohammed wearing a bomb-ridden turban striding across a map of the middle east as his views appear to provoke terrorism. Wonder how that would pan out in cartoon form. Islamic hate or political expression??) Rather it is accusing the Israeli govt of building peace (It's 'self protection of its citizens', surely. There is NO peace in Israel!!) on the death of Palestinians (are you alluding to genocide) and for the population voting for Netanyahu. This is more political than racial. (Racial hate masquerading as political objectivity, Ernst guesses)"

28 January 2013 at 10:46  
Blogger Harry-ca-Nab said...

If I were only a 20 years younger this pale, red headed Briton would volunteer for the IDF.

http://www.idf.il/english/

Do the Jews teach their children that Arabs are sub human - NO

Do they teach them to hate Arabs - NO

Do they celebrate at the death of Arabs - NO

Do they train young men to be suicide bombers - NO

Do they fire indiscriminately into Arab civilian populations - NO

Have they invaded Arab lands - NO

Do they preach that Arab countries will be wiped off the map - NO

Do they want to exterminate the Arabs - NO

And yet it is the civilised Jews, not the savage Arabs who get the sympathy.

Why?

Because when they are done with Israel they will be coming after us.

Then what will we do?

28 January 2013 at 10:51  
Blogger Michael and Brenda said...

The problem on all sides is to confuse 'Jews' with 'Israel' . To criticise Israel for its treatment of Palestinians is not anti-semitism

Michael Turnbull

28 January 2013 at 10:58  
Blogger IanCad said...

Quite why it is deemed offensive to build a wall, the purpose of which is, to create a barrier between those who want to live in peace and those who wish to drive them into the sea is beyond me.

28 January 2013 at 11:10  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Harry Cab,

Well said.

28 January 2013 at 11:12  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Laurence and Michael Turnbull,

I think that there is a big difference between the state of Israel and fascist Germany and the comparison of the two, that is where the offence lies.

28 January 2013 at 11:13  
Blogger D. Singh said...

IanCad

Brilliant!

28 January 2013 at 11:17  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

'And yet it is the civilised Jews, not the savage Arabs who get the sympathy.'

Think this maybe the wrong way round, just a tad?

Blowers

28 January 2013 at 11:25  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Blowers,

That is how I read Harry's comments as well. Presume it is typo?

28 January 2013 at 11:28  
Blogger Corrigan said...

What's with the "all right thinking people" garbage, Cranmer? Maybe you're hoping to shut down debate by creating a shit-storm of recrimination, in the cynical manner of Zionists everywhere?

1] So David Ward and Jenny Tonge are Jew-hating peas from the same Illiberal-Undemocrat pod.

No, that's just abuse, as we expect from Zionists.

2] To both, there is an undeniable correlation between the current Middle East geo-political conflicts and the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Nazis.

There IS an undeniable correlation. The correlation is that both political movements were based on racial entitlement. This is just a simple statement of fact.

3] So, in summary, Israel is apartheid

I think the word we're looking for here is "d'uh".

4] The Jews are evil

No, they didn't say that; you put those words in their mouths, which is a)a very old Zionist trick and b) an indication that you, Cranmer, are a person of low character.

5] Gaza is oppressed

I refer you to 3 above

6] The Palestinians are innocent victims

Glad you finally see things my way, Cranmer.

Surely, Cranmer, you've been witness to enough of Avi's vitriol to know by now that you can't shut up your opponents just by screaming "Hater! Hater!" at them? No? Oh, well, you are English, I suppose. It takes you a while...

28 January 2013 at 11:37  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Corrigan

John Ward has removed his anti-semetic racist post from his illiberal undemcratic pod.
I guess he felt guilty over his vile racist abuse with which you have now associated yourself with.

28 January 2013 at 12:15  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Corrigan,

The problem is that there is NO comparison between Israel, Judaism/Jews and The Third Reich. It is wrong and inaccurate to do so. That was the problem with the MP's comments.

28 January 2013 at 12:50  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Oh no!! D Singh has screamed "racist!!!" I guess that means I'll have to shut up, doesn't it?

28 January 2013 at 13:10  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Just as an aside, I wonder is it possible for non-Jewish Zionists to actually get any stupider? I mean, you do realize that once you start that "Racist!!! Hater!!! Anti-Semite!!!" hysteria, we just stop listening, don't you? Jewish Zionists are quite cynical about this, deliberately calculating that although these "abracadabra" words have no effect on the likes of me, idiot Gentile Zionists always react to them like Pavlovian dogs. Thus, while I'm arguing with D Singh, another Arab is getting run off his land. As I've said before, the only people with more contempt for the western supporters of Israel that me are the Israelis themselves.

28 January 2013 at 13:20  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Corrigan

You forgot to mention about how the Jews have no business being in Palestine in the first place, and how the whole problem would be solved if the Jews would just leave. One way or the other, I suppose.

carl

28 January 2013 at 13:25  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Corrigan

Tenants get evicted all the time.

28 January 2013 at 13:27  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Corrigan said...

What's with the "all right thinking people" garbage, Cranmer? Maybe you're hoping to shut down debate by creating a shit-storm of recrimination, in the cynical manner of Zionists everywhere?(We who believe Israel has the right to exist in peace are Zionists, are we?)

1] So David Ward and Jenny Tonge are Jew-hating peas from the same Illiberal-Undemocrat pod.

No, that's just abuse (Its called rhetorical comparison - A rhetorical comparison links our feeling about a thing to the thing we compare it to), as we expect from Zionists.

2] To both, there is an undeniable correlation between the current Middle East geo-political conflicts and the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Nazis.

There IS an undeniable correlation. The correlation is that both political movements were based on racial entitlement (Because you state something and offer no evidence does not make it so). This is just a simple statement of fact (a fallacy of presumption!).

3] So, in summary, Israel is apartheid (Apartheid is the seperation of one's own citizens from others by means of a specific classsification as originally found in S Africa, i.e. colour etc. Are Palestinians now Israelis then? The United Nations defined “racial discrimination” as “any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin. Is Israel not at 'WAR' with the palestinians hence the need supposed for a Peace Plan? Did we 'oppress' and put apartheid in place against Germany during WW2" by hemming them in within the Fatherland to stop the war and protect our citizens and nation).

I think the word we're looking for here is "d'uh". "I think the word we're looking for here is PRECISION in argument"

4] The Jews are evil (I.e. The most evil inhuman disease that ever affected mankind was NAZISM. The Jews are to be compared with the Nazi's. They are therefore comparatively evil!)

No, they didn't say that; you put those words in their mouths, which is a)a very old Zionist trick and b) an indication that you, Cranmer, are a person of low character.

5] Gaza is oppressed. (They are blockaded in to stop and hindering them launching attacks on Israel and it citizens. ISRAEL ARE AT WAR WITH THEM!!!) Why no peace plan being muted between UK and Germany.? There is no need for implementing peace as WE ARE NOT AT WAR!)

I refer you to 3 above

6] The Palestinians are innocent victims (As indeed were the three million ethnic German people in the Sudetenland, the western portion of Czechoslovakia but this did not stop Hitler using them for his own purposes as PLO and Hamas do continually with their own).

Blofeld

28 January 2013 at 13:51  
Blogger Corrigan said...

I particularly like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE

28 January 2013 at 14:14  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Corrigan

Shulamit Baloney. An extreme left winger who hates the orthodox, reformed view of Israel. Shulamit Aloni and her political party (Ratz) opposed anything that stood for Jewish heritage. It was a personal mission of hers to make Israel a generic, multicultural state with no specific ethnic character. She is charged on retiring as Israel Minister of Education with virtually eliminated Jewish instruction from the public education school system, as a result of which Israel has a new generation of Israeli children who are growing up without any sense of Jewish or Zionist history, let alone exposure to Bible, Talmud or other Jewish sources, even from a secularist point of view.

Wonder what you would think if Roman Catholicism was removed from the education system of Ireland to make it a "generic, multicultural state with no specific ethnic character". Ooooh Begorra!

Shalamit Baloney?...Think Tony Benn and what a horrid place GB was in his eyes, despite taking the queens shilling each month!

Blofeld

28 January 2013 at 15:03  
Blogger thestreetman said...

What a hateful, ugly, mean-spirited country we are becoming.

We deserve Islamisation.

28 January 2013 at 15:07  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Corrigan

Although I can't access the clip on my small mobile - just view it as propaganda; don't forget what your teachers taught you: question everything; there is no truth out there; all is relative.

Remember the cardinal starting point: always question the validity of the hyppotenuse!

28 January 2013 at 15:10  
Blogger D. Singh said...

thestreetman

Say what's up with you?

Don't you like it when we use liberal techniques to debunk your views?

Now you can see where it leads to.

Eh?

28 January 2013 at 15:21  
Blogger Corrigan said...

D. Sing,

If you can't access the clip, how do you know it's propaganda?

28 January 2013 at 16:00  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Hitler hated the Jews for he blamed them for Germany loosing WW1 and this hatred festered.
One cannot compare Hitler's hatred of Jews and what he did to them with the Israeli Palestine situation. The Zionsit Jews I don't think hate the Palestinians, they just want that land without them on it. That they have pushed them off at gun point and killed many is nasty but bears no resemblance to the Holocaust. But that MP David Ward does have a point that they should have learned that killing people for their own ends is not the way forward as it only invokes hatred and more violence and from a peoples that don't need much encouragement. One would think that the Jews would value human life more.

28 January 2013 at 16:13  
Blogger thestreetman said...

Singh

What on earth are you trying to say?

28 January 2013 at 16:16  
Blogger Berserker said...

Who exactly are the Palestinians? There is no Palestinian culture. There is no Palestinian language. It's all a myth. Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs and Jew were once known as Palestinians.

The Arabs and the Jews both claim descent from Abraham's sons.

The term anti-semitic seems to only apply to the Jews. Obviously this is a nonsense.

Semitic is an ethnic grouping. If I say I hate the Maltese, does this mean because their language is semitic that I am being anti-semitic?

28 January 2013 at 16:18  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Corrigan and thestreetmam

Why don't you run along and assist the Nepalese and the Taiwanese against Red China instead of bothering a nation that had ethics, law, temples, palaces, philosophers, poets and prophets in an age when your ancestors were trying to discover the secret of fire?

If you want two know if a two state soluti
on will work go and be instructed by India and Pakistan who have just advised their peoples in Kashmir to prepare for a nuclear war.

Stupid anti-semitic racists.

28 January 2013 at 17:03  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

D Singh,

Thanks- it is good to read that Jews are not alone in all of this and that we have the support of other people. I'm beyond the ranting and ranting stage with several people on this blog. Oy Vey is my resigned expression, tinged with the knowledge that there are many Jewish friendly people who post here.

28 January 2013 at 17:22  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Criminally offensive and grossly inaccurate in its portrayal of reality.

28 January 2013 at 17:33  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Kavanagh

May I ask a favour?

Please could you use your intellect to shield the Judaeo-Christians in Israel?

Your people are my people.

Don't forget what General Patton said:

Take 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the pants.

28 January 2013 at 17:52  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...



What rotten luck. These socialist Johnnies talking a dim view on a bulwark against Islam…

It is hard to pin down the origin of the virulent anti Israeli position held by liberal lefties, but allow the Inspector to hazard a guess.

It comes from this country, and its part of the extraordinary package the socialists have bent over forwards and adopted to attract the Islamic vote in the UK. Another example is how silent the Labour party has been about SSM. Not a damn squeak. Ask yourself why ?

Socialism wrecks lives – what !





28 January 2013 at 18:02  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Comparison

Tibetans VS Palestinians

Which group do you think the EU and UN have rewarded for terrorism?

On 8th july 2005, the G8 awarded 3 billion dollars to the PLO. The grandfathers of terrorism, who made hijacking airplanes into an art and have used terrorist tactics to target high profile and prominent public people since 1920's to date receives worldwide recognition. It has never taken steps to stop violence or corruption as it agreed.

Tibet has been brutally occupied and for a much longer period than the Palestinians..Heard any bleeding hearts from RC's on here or the UN and EU recently for their 'cause'?

THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF TERRORISM IS THAT IT BLEED'N WELL WORKS.

Blofeld

28 January 2013 at 18:10  
Blogger D. Singh said...

OIG

Good show old chap!

28 January 2013 at 18:13  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

ps

"On 8th july 2005, the G8 awarded 3 billion dollars to the PLO." The bloody day after London was bombed by our 'peace loving' british born muslims.
We have become a nation of cowards and we deserve all that we get for shafting Israel by creating Jordan (where most of the Palestinians originated from..Arafat himself was Egyptian) using 75% of the land in the Balfour declaration instead of doing the right and honourable thing..

Blowers

28 January 2013 at 18:15  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Blofeld

Outstanding! SMERSH will be displeased.

28 January 2013 at 18:22  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Mr D Singh,

As one who has dearly beloved Christian relatives, I always do my upmost to remind Israel (and my Israeli relatives) of the need to safeguard minorities in Israel, including the Christians there and their ability to practice their faith without fear of persecution.

Thankfully as Israel is a parliamentary democracy (as Britain is) the government does listen and take action with these concerns and issues (unlike the rest of the region, e.g. Syria, which is busy slaughtering its own population, but of course no mention of that from Corrigan).

Whilst on the subject, I guess he finds it difficult to think that one of the Presidents of Israel was an Irish Jew...

On the subject of Jews as a chosen people, again another fraught topic, the quote from our previous Chief Rabbi, Lord Immanuel Jakobovits, is interesting :

"Yes, I do believe that the chosen people concept as affirmed by Judaism in its holy writ, its prayers, and its millennial tradition. In fact, I believe that every people—and indeed, in a more limited way, every individual—is "chosen" or destined for some distinct purpose in advancing the designs of Providence. Only, some fulfill their mission and others do not. Maybe the Greeks were chosen for their unique contributions to art and philosophy, the Romans for their pioneering services in law and government, the British for bringing parliamentary rule into the world, and the Americans for piloting democracy in a pluralistic society. The Jews were chosen by G-d to be 'peculiar unto Me' as the pioneers of religion and morality; that was and is their national purpose."

28 January 2013 at 18:25  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

D Singh,

SMERSH? VENOM more like. (Vicious Evil Network of Mayhem).

28 January 2013 at 18:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Singh, present them with the truth and they run a mile, what !

28 January 2013 at 19:33  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Ernsty said ...

"Tibet has been brutally occupied and for a much longer period than the Palestinians.. Heard any bleeding hearts from RC's on here or the UN and EU recently for their 'cause'?"

Could you be specific instead of the presumption RC's all hold the same opinion on Israel - we don't.

And when did our host last post an article on Tibet? Maybe he has; I have no memory of this. Personally, I regard Tibetan Buddhism and its religious/social/political structures as somewhat dubious. Don't you?

As for Israel, I think it would be better if it was approached as a political problem and religion took a back seat. Zionism (Christian and Judaic) tends to get in the way of a solution. Add Islam to this and the situation is beyond resolution.

Israel is a State, a liberal democratic one, at that. I don't like how it was formed or how Arabs living there at the time were treated. That was then; this is now. Its right to exist is beyond question apart from extremist groups. We may or may not agree with the leaders in Israel but it is their responsibility to seek a solution. We are entitled to pass observations on the situation without being labelled "anti-Semitic". Eventually there may be a blood bath if a political solution, acceptable to both sides, cannot be negotiated.

Oh, and I agree this cartoon, especially at this time, was insensitive and crude at best. But
"a blood libel; a vicious assault on the memory of millions, and an offence against all morality."?

28 January 2013 at 20:04  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Hi, D. Singh,

Feeling suitably superior now? Not to David Kavanagh, of course (I mean, you ARE still only Goyim), but certainly to me.




28 January 2013 at 20:07  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Speaking personally, one cannot see any immediate offence from the cartoon. Maybe, just maybe if you pondered over it for a while, with a glass of whisky, you might be slightly irritated, but for God’s sake, let nothing come between us and parody, and Scarfe is consummate supreme in that field.

Faint hearts, freedom of expression is at stake, you know !!

28 January 2013 at 20:09  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Corrigan,

Goyim or Gentiles, as the phrase is in English, simply means non- Jewish, just as the English are not Irish.

"Hi" to you as well.

Strange that you are the one who is obsessing about Jews on this thread calling you and your views, anti- semetic/Jew hater[s], yet you are the one who is indulging in ad hominem.

28 January 2013 at 20:18  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Davif

Goy is the standard Hebrew biblical term for a "nation," including the "great nation" of Israel.

Use of the plural, "nations," to refer to non-Jews is found from "I will cast out the nations before thee" (Exodus 34:24) and acquired the meaning of "gentile".

It can therefore be used or understood in a derogatory fashion - nations being cast out by Jews - and perhaps gentile would be a better term.

28 January 2013 at 20:38  
Blogger David Lindsay said...

I trust that everyone had a Happy Holocaust Day. If you find that offensive, then so you should. But what else is one supposed to say? The whole thing is as ridiculous as it is revolting. For one thing, why is it on 27th January, the day Auschwitz exchanged mass-murdering Nazi tyranny for mass-murdering Soviet tyranny? Why not 15th April, the day Belsen really was liberated, and that by the British? In some years, that would even coincide usefully with Easter.

Is the Conservative Whip going to be withdrawn from the hundreds of MPs who are in fact members of a party which has moved from coalition to impending merger with Avigdor Lieberman's gutter mob, and which is moving to coalition, doubtless leading to merger, with Naftali Bennett's sewer mob? Exactly how many people would that leave in receipt of the Conservative Whip?

David Ward's main mistake has been the common one of assuming that the present State of Israel has much connection at all to the Holocaust. Not only is the population within the pre-1967 borders 20 per cent Arab and growing, but the majority of the rest is of Middle Eastern rather than European origin: dark-skinned, linguistically and culturally Arabic, and with little or (overwhelmingly) no connection to the victims of Hitler.

How come, then, that the place is run by Avigdor Lieberman, who was born in what is now Moldova, who did not move to Israel until he was 20, and who continues to sport a Slavic surname; by a white man called Bennett; and by Benjamin Mileikowsky, who affects to be called Netanyahu, a name inscribed in Ancient Hebrew on a 2800-year-old signet ring which he displays in his office? Why does this overwhelmingly brown country in the Levant have an apparently irremovable white ruling class which is basically and ultimately European or European-American?

Why, indeed?

28 January 2013 at 20:40  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Dodo

Davif!?!

OK, well I shall let Wiki take the strain on this one :

'Rabbinical literature the meaning of the word "goy" shifted the Biblical meaning of "a people" which could be applied to the Hebrews/Jews as to others into meaning "a people other than the Jews". In later generations, a further shift left the word as meaning an individual person who belongs to non-Jewish people.

In modern Hebrew and Yiddish the word goy is the standard term for a gentile. The two words are related. In ancient Greek, ta ethne was used to translate ha goyim, both phrases meaning "the nations". In Latin, gentilis was used to translate the Greek word for "nation", which led to the word "gentile"'.

But I also note the following :

'in English, the use of the word goy can be controversial. Like other common (and otherwise innocent) terms, it may be assigned pejoratively to non-Jews.

To avoid any perceived offensive connotations, writers may use the English terms "gentile" or "non-Jew".

In Yiddish, it is the only proper term for gentile and many bilingual English and Yiddish speakers use it dispassionately or even deliberately'.

Hope this clarifies!!

28 January 2013 at 21:15  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Sorry, David, but when you're arguing with people who defend a racialist invasion by accusing those who object to it of racism, you kind of know reality isn't exactly at a premium.

28 January 2013 at 21:21  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

David

Sorry about the 'f' - not intended.

Well yes, 'goy' may be the only Yiddish term for 'gentile' but given its root meaning from Exodus 'goyim' is a potentially ambiguous term. It's a bit like the word 'Yid' (derived from Jude) and its varying pronunciations. Any chance of the inventive people of Israel coining an alternative Yiddish term?

28 January 2013 at 21:31  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Dodo,

I didn't realise the phrase was offensive, till I looked it up. I guess it is like when my black friends don't like to be called 'Negro'. So I shall use the term 'Gentile' in situations such as this blog .

28 January 2013 at 21:42  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Corrigan,

Yeah, right.

Given that your reality is that the only religion and faith on this whole earth worth considering or following, is the one truth Catholic Church, a Church which until the 1960's condemned Jews for killing "Christ" and given that you display religious contempt for all other types of Christian denominations -let alone those of other faiths- I am left to wonder why you support a group, which according to your own viewpoint, are destined for hell (Muslim Arabs).

OK, I guess that Jews are also, but you must have waved a long finger in the wind to decide that one.

PS-

If reality is an insurance premium, as far as you are concerned you wouldn't get insurance cover!

28 January 2013 at 22:11  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

28 January 2013 at 22:15  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

PS-

I mean no offence to decent religious Catholics such as Cressida, Dodo, Old Jim and Inspector in my posts above. Corrigan is getting a bit of his own medicine, when he moans about how apparently trivial anti -semitism is, so he can suck on a dose of his own medicine and reflect on how it feels when a bit of anti-Catholicism is banded around with gay abandon or proper thought...

28 January 2013 at 22:16  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Oh, get off you're sulky white charger, David. Anti-Catholicism was always endemic in the English speaking world, so feel free to have your little go if it makes you feel like a big man. All I ask is that you don't pee down my back and then try to tell me that it's raining. The state of Israel is a stick-up and that's all it is or ever was. You saw something you wanted and you took it; anybody who got in the way got blasted out of it. Judaism stands degraded by it in the same way that Catholicism was degraded by too close an association with the state in the traditional Catholic countries of Europe. There was no empty land, put you lied to yourselves and to the world to justify stealing it from people who were racially the same as you, who had not left the land in 2000 years but whose ancestors had converted to Islam at some point along the way. You turned on your own, stole from your own, murdered your own and now, with the help of Christian Zionists who don't actually care a tuppeny damn about you except as instruments to bring about some putative "end time", you prostitute your intellects and the strictures of your faith to justify what you have done. Sell that crap to Carl Jacobs because both of us know that I'm not buying it.

28 January 2013 at 22:51  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

David

When you say: " ... the one truth Catholic Church, a Church which until the 1960's condemned Jews for killing "Christ"", you are over simplifying a complex aspect of all Christian faith since the 1st century.

28 January 2013 at 22:55  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


Corrigan old chap. You are doing sterling work for Islam, but do bear in mind you will still be required to pay their infidel tax.

Pip pip, that man.

28 January 2013 at 22:57  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Ps

And please do not use the expression "gay abandon" when referencing Catholics! You'll excite our resident 'Icky' person.

28 January 2013 at 22:58  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

David,

You left out John Magee and Albert on your list of devout Catholics...

28 January 2013 at 22:59  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

28 January 2013 at 23:02  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

I can see why Corrigan- and the comments on the post by this so called 'liberal democrat' would wind you up.

My thoughts -

1)I have yet to visit Israel and see death camps being set up or gas chambers or hair, skin, teeth and bones being used as Ersatz goods

2)I have yet to see a camp in which a skeleton figure, possibly a woman is still clutching her dead, decomposing child

3)I have yet to smell the stench of rotting flesh from millions of corpses, who have been laid bare because they were not part of the 'Mater Race' and thus were killed without discrimination, be they man, woman or child.

4)I have yet to see Israel ban non- Jews from running businesses, being physicians or other professionals.

5) I have yet to see Israel deny her minority citizens the vote or indeed abolish Parliamentary democracy or pass sweeping 'enabling acts'.

6)I have yet to see Israel embark upon a bloody crusade in the name of religion or for the desire of conquering the globe and thrusting it into the greatest darkness it has known since the dawn of man.


And on a personal note, it should be noted that according to the Nuremberg laws, Corrigan's fellow Catholic, Dodo would have been sent to the camps and killed. So would his father and his children and any grandchildren. The only people who were driven crazy about racial purity were the Fascists

28 January 2013 at 23:12  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Inspector,

I don't think much of the Caliphate, either, but as is the way with Zionists, I'm depicted as being the friend of the Ummah because I don't swallow Zionist hogwash. Had anybody bothered to ask, instead of assuming that if I'm against one I must for the other, I would have told them that. Europe does not need Israel to guard its precious little cherry; truth be told, about 90% of the crap we have to put up with from Muslims is provoked by this cancer in the guts of Arabia. If it had never existed, I doubt we'd have anything like the trouble from Islam that we have now. I have to say to you, Catholic to Catholic, that you are seriously over-analyzing the situation. It's really simple: what's right is right. If you march into somebody's country and disposses its people at the point of a gun, you're going to get blowback. It's right there in the scriptures, both ours and the Torah - thou shalt not steal. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto the Muslims that which is theirs. The fact that I don't like Muslims doesn't give me the right to rob them.

28 January 2013 at 23:17  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Lord Lavendon

It is truly a miracle that I am here at all. What with both the Fascists and Cromwell's Protestants after both sides of my family.

Isn't everyone sooo glad I made it?!!

Growing up as a Catholic I have to confess to feeling uncomfortable about the image of Jews presented to me at school and in Church; implied more than explicit. Truly, "they" seemed a strange and frightening group to an impressionable child - even more so than 'Proddies' down the road. There was no explicit anti-Semitism, or direct preaching against Jews, just an unspoken feeling they were somehow 'different'. And yet my father was a Jew, so I knew them to be people just like everyone else.

Thank God things are different today and the Gospel is explained to children.

28 January 2013 at 23:20  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

28 January 2013 at 23:22  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

28 January 2013 at 23:30  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Corrigan

With all due respect I really don't think Carl Jacobs will 'buy that Cr-p' as you so wonderfully call a certain part of Christianity, because Carl is on record as saying he supports Israel, not because of Christian prophecy or whatever, but because he is a hard headed strategic rationalist. Read his posts in the thread below if you do not believe me.

I am not on some kind of 'sulky white charger'; as for the rest of it, about my ancestors converting to Islam and that Jews left that land 2,000 years ago, shows your ignorance of history. I think you will find the Roman Empire chucked Jews out of the Holy Land by the sword and that Islam converted people by the sword. Let us not discuss the Crusades either.

28 January 2013 at 23:33  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Dodo,

I am fully well aware that these issues are complex- as are the whole Protestant/Catholic divisions I so frequently read on this blog. My point was to note Corrigan's arrogance viz his own faith and his perception of others.

I noted in the above that I have no axe to grind against you or other Catholics here.

Lord Lavendon, yes, I agree I didn't include J Magee or Albert there.

28 January 2013 at 23:35  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Corrigan wrote:

If [Israel] had never existed, I doubt we'd have anything like the trouble from Islam that we have now.

Yeah. If only the Jews had lost that war in 1948. Just think if all of those dirty invading Zionist Jews had been killed off before they became strong enough to defend themselves. It's going to be much harder to kill them all, now. Plus, there was already a cool title picked out for the Arab Victory March. "Final Solution: The Sequel." Damn filthy Jews! Who told them they were allowed to win?

carl

28 January 2013 at 23:55  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi David Lindsey,

Most of what your write is utter nonsense, it isn't worth bothering to unpick line by line.

Except-

Before you pontificate on Jewish surnames, consider the fact that Judaism never had the concept of surnames and Hebrew names read 'x, son/daughter of y'. Surnames are an imposition from both European and Islamic states.

28 January 2013 at 23:56  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Oh and the date was chosen by the reputable UN as the date to remember the Holocaust. Israel itself remembers this as Yom HaShoah, on 27th of Nisan .

29 January 2013 at 00:03  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

David K

I know what you intended. I posted this for "others", not necessarily you.

Corrigan

Will you ever accept the legitimacy of Israel as a State with the right to self determination and self defence?

If not, what would you have the Israelis do?

If so, what would you have the Israelis do?

29 January 2013 at 00:04  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

29 January 2013 at 00:12  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Corrigan schreibt:

If you march into somebody's country and disposses its people at the point of a gun, you're going to get blowback.

Yes! Yes! This is correct! This is exactly why the German Reich in 1939 had to fight a defensive war against Poland. We had been dispossessed at gunpoint.

On a personal note, Corrigan, I would like to say how touched we in the Waffen-SS were by the sympathy card our Government received from the Irish Government upon the death of our Beloved Führer, Adolf Hitler. We will always know who are friends are.

Heinrich Muller
SS-Hauptsturmführer, Ret.
2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich

29 January 2013 at 00:12  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Well Corrigan is in his usual fantasy land when it comes to these things. I think from several comments he had made, he sees the Arab-Israeli conflict,in the same way as a 'republican' would on the issue of Ireland.

Thus :

Arabs = Irish Republicans

Jews = British ('evil')

Ironically though, as it has been said above, Israel has had an Irish- Jew as President (whose father was called the 'Rabbi of Sinn Féin') and the first President of Israel was a British -Jew.

29 January 2013 at 00:20  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

29 January 2013 at 00:20  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Carl Jacobs,

LOL! I am not sure Corrigan will get the humour though.

29 January 2013 at 00:21  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

29 January 2013 at 00:46  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

29 January 2013 at 00:47  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Getting back to the topic of the cartoon, despite my note above about it possibly causing offence because of the steroype of Jews, did we Jews protest and burn the streets when this got published? Not a chance. We laffed our arses off, as we believe enough in ourselves and in our own religion, not to worry about such crock. In any case I think Mr Murdock has now distanced himself from the cartoon

29 January 2013 at 00:57  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you, and welcome back Your Grace!

Notwithstanding the substance of what you write, one begins to perceive why Pennsylvania Avenue monitors your posts! It is the 'voice' which fascinates them! They want to know how it works :)))


PS: Ummm ... this use of cartoons is redolent of the fuss about that anti-mozzie cartoon a year or two ago. In contrast to their hysterical response, you are both civilised and effective. We may, thereby, observe that arab-islamic supporters suppose they have appropriated the form with impunity. One law for them, then---

29 January 2013 at 01:28  
Blogger non mouse said...

Mr. Jacobs: -:)

29 January 2013 at 01:31  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

non mouse

Was that supposed to be a rude gesture? Well, tough. I don't pull punches. Not on this subject, anyways.

carl

29 January 2013 at 03:26  
Blogger Harry-ca-Nab said...

Well spotted guys. My post at 28 January 2013 10:51

"'And yet it is the civilised Jews, not the savage Arabs who get the sympathy.'"

Should read...

'And yet it is the savage Arabs, not the civilised Jews, who get the sympathy.'

29 January 2013 at 04:05  
Blogger non mouse said...

Mr Jacobs - You're a poor judge of character --- I don't do rude gestures. That was a smile.

29 January 2013 at 04:48  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

non mouse

My apologies, then. I did try to find that emoticon on the internet. I have never seen a smile constructed like that. My fault entirely.

carl

29 January 2013 at 04:53  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. Sorry if I didn't follow emoticon protocol (didn't really know there was one)!

29 January 2013 at 05:07  
Blogger John Magee said...

I thought the face was President Nixon. The nose looks exactly like his.

This Sunday Times cartoon face is exactly the type of left wing cartoon that was in the newspapers during the early 1970's making Nixon look like some ogre. Now his cartoon face is being plagerized by the left as being "Jewish".

Can anyone else see the Nixon resemblance?

The ears are a bit large but the face is his...

29 January 2013 at 05:50  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dikkie

"Could you be specific instead of the presumption RC's all hold the same opinion on Israel - we don't." Ernst said nothing of the sort and it is apparent you are not vicious like your fellow RC Anti semites, you merely hold the average view that it is the 'Jews at fault for not making more 'piecemeal moves to placate a victimised palestinian-hood'. They have no biblical rights to the land or to be there, do they?

"And when did our host last post an article on Tibet? Maybe he has; I have no memory of this. Personally, I regard Tibetan Buddhism and its religious/social/political structures as somewhat dubious. Don't you?" Err, for real? What has religious social structures etc got to do with 'oppression' of a people in a nation, as your 'fellow' RC's have so eloquently pointed out or are the Jews, well, just different and a special case?

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are unchangeable

By the "calling of God," in this verse, is meant that sovereign act by which God, in the exercise of His free choice, "called" Abraham to be the father of a peculiar people; while "the gifts of God" here denote the articles of the covenant which God made with Abraham, and which constituted the real distinction between his and all other families of the earth. Both these, says the apostle, are irrevocable; and as the point for which he refers to this at all is the final destiny of the Israelitish nation, it is clear that the perpetuity through all time of the Abrahamic covenant is the thing here affirmed.
And lest any should say that though Israel, as a nation, has no destiny at all under the Gospel, but as a people disappeared from the stage when the middle wall of partition was broken down, yet the Abrahamic covenant still endures in the spiritual seed of Abraham, made up of Jews and Gentiles in one undistinguished mass of redeemed men under the Gospel-the apostle, as if to preclude that supposition, expressly states that the very Israel who, as concerning the Gospel, are regarded as "enemies for the Gentiles' sakes," are "beloved for the fathers' sakes"; and it is in proof of this that he adds, "For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance."
But in what sense are the now unbelieving and excluded children of Israel "beloved for the fathers' sakes?" Not merely from ancestral recollections, as one looks with fond interest on the child of a dear friend for that friend's sake a beautiful thought, and not foreign to Scripture, in this very matter (see 2Ch 20:7; Isa 41:8)-but it is from ancestral connections and obligations, or their lineal descent from and oneness in covenant with the fathers with whom God originally established it. In other words, the natural Israel-not "the remnant of them according to the election of grace," but THE NATION, sprung from Abraham according to the flesh-are still an elect people, and as such, "beloved."
The very same love which chose the fathers, and rested on the fathers as a parent stem of the nation, still rests on their descendants at large, and will yet recover them from unbelief, and reinstate them in the family of God.

Blowers

29 January 2013 at 09:20  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

As for Israel, I think it would be better if it was approached as a political problem and religion took a back seat. Zionism (Christian and Judaic) tends to get in the way of a solution. Add Islam to this and the situation is beyond resolution." The Lord tends to see it differently as His Name and Faithfulness is being questioned here. Did He or Did He not promise to restore Israel by His Word?

Israel is a State, a liberal democratic one, at that. I don't like how it was formed or how Arabs living there at the time were treated." You may even think it terrible that God commanded Joshua to take the land from the nations He had judged should be removed from it for their wickedness and establish the nation Israel originally or has Jehovah NO Sovereign jurisdiction over His Creation? If not, then what right has He given your lot 'The Keys' to crown or depose kings and divide nations and give it to others such as Ireland to a Norman King?

"That was then; this is now. Its right to exist is beyond question apart from extremist groups. We may or may not agree with the leaders in Israel but it is their responsibility to seek a solution. We are entitled to pass observations on the situation without being labelled "anti-Semitic". INDEED, as we are allowed to call Roman Catholicism to account without being called anti-Catholics and yet get vitriol as we do, on this blog?!

"Eventually there may be a blood bath if a political solution, acceptable to both sides, cannot be negotiated." Yes there will but only because Israel will listen to siren voices such as yours and go against the very reason God has recovered them and place them back on HIS LAND..to repent and petition Him to return as THEIR KING..but by signing a peace deal enforced by you know who!

Oh, and I agree this cartoon, especially at this time, was insensitive and crude at best. But
"a blood libel; a vicious assault on the memory of millions, and an offense against all morality."? "It is satanically inspired..The Jews are at risk from Satan to show God cannot honour His Promises and so Satan will try, by any means such as enlisting humans, to break them. We are not at risk in a way they are as we have place our trust in HIM as the Church and it is settled by His Blood, our brethren in Israel are yet to be re-united with us and fulfill God's promises stated in Romans last 3 chapters to Abraham and David..or do you find this offensive, as Jonah did, that He would make a Nation to repent and turn to Him rather than be destroyed by judgment?? There was a time dear bird when we were all in denial/unbelief yet that did not Stop Him for drawing us near to our moment to repent and turn to Him and BELIEVE. You view Israel and their position in history at this moment in grave error or did you believe and were holy before He visited you and made you holy?

Ernst

29 January 2013 at 09:43  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

ps

"Add Islam to this and the situation is beyond resolution."

The wars between Iraq and Iran or the invasion of Kuwait etc in the middle east, Were they because of Israel or does Islam really just not need an excuse to murder its own believers and others because it is what it is?

Ernst

29 January 2013 at 09:50  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Corrigan, your position is respected by this man. In fact, it reminds him of his own position not much more than 18 months ago, before certain facts about Israel came to his attention via this sterling site. For example, he had no idea so much land was bought by Jewish settlers.



29 January 2013 at 13:33  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Ernsty

I do wish you'd read and try to understand my comments before giving your *comprehensive* replies!

I made no criticism of Israel; neither did I imply any support for the Arab nations.

Who knows the mind of God in respect of the secular State of Israel? You? I really think not! To approach the political situation in the middle east with some prophetic understanding in mind is not only dangerous but wildly presumptuous.

29 January 2013 at 16:46  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Only an American Calvinist could possibly regard this as a rude sign: -:)


<[..]>

29 January 2013 at 16:51  
Blogger John Magee said...

Inspector

Are you familiar with the so called "price tag" attacks by radical Jewish settlers? These attacks do not of course reflect the majority of Jews in Israel. Only a group of radical Hassdic Jewish settlers. But it shows how crazy religious radicals of any faith can become who are so wrapped up in their "religion" they forget the MEANING of their faith:

Price tag policy (Hebrew: מדיניות תג מחיר) is, according to B'Tselem, the name given to "acts of random violence aimed at the Palestinian population and Israeli security forces" by radical Israeli Jewish settlers, who, according to the New York Times, "exact a price from local Palestinians or from the Israeli security forces for any action taken against their settlement enterprise". The Wall Street Journal states that the term refers to "a campaign of retribution by fundamentalist Israeli youths against Palestinians in the West Bank. Recently, Christian churches and possessions in Jerusalem have also become targets for price tag attacks.

Radical Jewish settlers have been desecrating Catholic and Protestant churches in Israel for the past several years. They call their desecrations "price tag" attacks.

Vandals Desecrate Monastery of the Cross in Jerusalem.

20 February, 2012 -

Vandals daubed "Death to Christianity", "Jesus is dead," and "Mary was a prostitute" on the Jerusalem Baptist Narkis Street Congregation church, and slashed the tires of several cars parked in the compound. The acts were countersigned by price tag graffiti.

3 October, 2012 -The entrance to the Roman Catholic Church of the Dormition on Mount Zion was sprayed with graffiti that read "Jesus, son of a bitch, price tag."

December 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Vandals spray-painted profanities on the entrance to and on three vehicles belonging to the Monastery of the Cross in Jerusalem overnight Tuesday in the latest in a spate of so-called “price-tag” attacks on Christian institutions in Israel over the past year.

The vandalism at the church is the second such attack on the site this year, with a similar attack occurring some ten months ago. In both cases, police have made no arrests. The Orthodox Greek church, which lies in Jerusalem’s Valley of the Cross close to Sacher Park in Rehavia, also had graffiti spray-painted on its entrance which read: “Jesus is a son of a bitch” and “Jesus is an ape.” The cars were spray-painted with the messages: “Victory of the Maccabees, and Happy Holidays.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned the vandalism, saying in a statement that the perpetrators’ actions did not reflect the Jewish people as a whole. “It goes against Jewish values we have been raised on and the values we pass on to our children,” Netanyahu said Wednesday. “The continued freedom of worship for all religions in Israel will be safeguarded and we will make sure the lowly vandals are brought to justice,” he said.

I am glad PM Netanyahu condemned these crazies. But let's see if they are punished when they are finally caught.

29 January 2013 at 19:22  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo

"Only an American Calvinist could possibly regard this as a rude sign: -:)"

Please define an "American Calvinist" as opposed to a Scottish one, or a French or Swiss one, a Presbyterian in Ulster, or even a member of the Hungarian Calvinist Church.

The Calvinists I know in the USA (Presbyterians and Congregationalists) are fine people who would do anything to help their neighbors in time of need. Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to be all about?

In my small town I look out my back windows several times a day and see the white spires of their beautiful church and the chapel of their college here. You can see them in my pics.

29 January 2013 at 19:30  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...



John . One is well aware of the ‘cornered rat’ behaviour of man in a tight corner. The young Jews in Israel are no exception. But ones earlier post of not giving the Islamists succour by aiding their victory must take precedence....







29 January 2013 at 20:03  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Carl

An "American Calvinist":

The ideology of 'Manifest Destiny' for the USA in combination with predestination.

29 January 2013 at 20:47  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

... the above was meant for John Magee, not Carl.

29 January 2013 at 20:49  
Blogger John Magee said...

Inspector

No one loaths Islam more than me here. I am well aware of the threat modern Islamic Jihad, inspired by the Muslim the Brotherhood, Wahabi Islam, and other radical Islamic forces, means for Western Christian Civilization. Islam is at war with the non Muslim world once again today and has been for over 1,400 years. I harp about this concept constantly and fear the future now they have invaded our nations through massive immigration.

Wrong behavior is wrong behavior. Hate is hate, bigotry is bigotry no matter who says these things or acts out their hatred. There are no excuse for Hassidic Jews to attack, desecrate and write hurtful filth about Jesus and His Mother on Chrisian church walls for any reason whatsoever.

They also harass Christian clergy and pilgrims in Jerusalem. This is well documented and is wrong too.

Secular Jews in Israel alsoloath this Ultra Orthodox behavior. Until recently Orhtodox males were exempt from the military in Israel while the sons and daughters of secular Jews were called upon to die for their country these young able bodied young male Orthodox/Hassidic Jews studied the Torah ...

Like all religious fanatics they are unstable.

I will not cover up the truth out of fear the truth will help Islam. Islam lives on lies and hatred. The truth is the truth and it must be told. This applies to Catholic and Protestant hypocrisy as well.

@ Dodo

'An "American Calvinist":

The ideology of 'Manifest Destiny' for the USA in combination with predestination."

Where is "Manifest Destiny" written down as an "ideology"?

For the 2nd time Manifest Destiny was always a very general notion rather than a specific policy. There were never a set of principles defining Manifest destiny. Ill-defined but keenly felt, Manifest destiny was conviction in expansionism alongside other popular ideas of the era, including American exceptionalism and Romantic nationalism.

The USA had every right to expand westward toward the Pacific Ocean just as Canada did. As I documented for you most of the land we aquired west of the Mississippi was bought from France, Mexico, Spain, or Russia.

Because our Constitution created a secular country where church and state do not mingle in any way most of all government policies this makes your post is meaningless.

If you are driving at a British Protestant work ethic (95% of the explorers and settlers who bravely went west in what became the USA in covered wagons or on foot were of British Protestant stock) and an almost genetic British desire to explore what's across an ocean, over the next mountain, or down an unknown river, yes, I agree that has been a prime motivator in the expansion of the USA by Protestants among them many Calvinist's who worked hard and created wealth from a wilderness in less than 250 years here after our Revolution. I admire them just as I do the same people who settled Enlish speaking Canada, Australia, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, and all the other places the British need to explore and develope the land took them.

I wonder if you are consistant and look at the European nations who created Empires far from their homelands and exploited foreign labor and natural resources for their own wealth and had their clergy convert the natives to Christianty as a "tad bit arrogant"?

Wasn't this a form of "Manifest destiny"?

I say three cheers for hard working Calvinist's, other Protestants, and Catholics.

29 January 2013 at 22:58  
Blogger Corrigan said...

John Magee,

It doesn't matter if what you say about the "price tag" crowd is true or not; what is certainly true is that they are Jews. Since you have been critical of people who are Jewish, it follows that you are a vicious anti-Semite and worse than Hitler.

29 January 2013 at 23:35  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

John Magee

Calm down, calm down.

I answered your question 'tis all. And please do not pretend USA citizens do not consider themselves the greatest nation on earth setting us all an example of how to live.

29 January 2013 at 23:41  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Corrigan,

The difference is that Israel and Jews of the Diaspora totally condemn the actions of this group, I think that one of the previous the Israeli Prime Minister called it a "Pogrom" and that the Chief Rabbis of Israel also condemn these attacks .

As Israeli President Shimon Peres said: "It is unconscionable that a Jew would harm something that is holy to another religion ... We will not allow extremists and criminals to undercut the need to live together equally in equality and mutual respect".

And from the opposite end of the Israeli political spectrum :

Settler leader Hanan Porat has also condemned the price tag policy. "The ‘price tag’ response is immoral,it’s unheard of that one needs to burn the vineyards and fields of Arabs. It’s immoral ... and it gives legitimacy to those who are interested in undermining the outpost issue. It's a very grave matter."

Contrast this with the current actions of the Syrian government and the slaughter it is bringing upon her own people or the regime of Iraq, where chemical weapons were used. Or, closer to home, the frequent refusal of Sinn Féin to condemn terrorist acts against British civilians during the troubles.

30 January 2013 at 00:07  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Hannah,

Your post could be construed as being critical of the actions of people who are Jewish; it therefore follows automatically that you are a self-hating Jew and (we need hardly say) worse than Hitler.

30 January 2013 at 00:27  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Corrigan,

ROFL,

It is not my problem that you just do not like Jews or Judaism and that you use any and all opportunities to attack Judaism, Israel. Ironic because your Church is founded on the rock of a Jew and has a Jew as its principal saviour. Every time you go to Mass you worship a Jew. Perhaps it is yourself who is the self hater ?

30 January 2013 at 00:38  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Corrigan

Not a good time or the right audience for irony, Sir.

Israelis do criticise other Israelis - its the nature of politics. Look at the history of Ireland's struggle for freedom.

You should read an Israeli newspaper from time to time. Like the UK, secularism is on the rise there and radical, even fanatical, Judaism is one response to this from a minority.

30 January 2013 at 00:48  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

What a great post and what a fascinating discussion. been reading all of the posts and comments, I have. A special greeting to bro ivo. Still without my laptop with its cooked motherboard, the pc needs reloading and a new os, the device is a pain in the..... unfit for anything but texting shopping lists and I'm coated in diesel gunk. Saw a spectacular Aurora borealis, though. Back after some shut- eye.

30 January 2013 at 04:17  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Avi

I knew it was about time for you to show up. The culinary quotient has been entirely too high around here, lately. Hey, I hear that Canada printed some money bearing an image of the wrong Maple leaf? It's like your National Symbol. How could you get the wrong leaf?

carl

30 January 2013 at 04:47  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo

You have an amazing immigination.

Is mind reading one of your hidden talents you've never shared with us? Isn't that a bit "new age" for you? Your ability to collectively read the minds of over 350 million is astonishing.

I think you are suffering from a bad case of sour grapes.

By the way. Do you wear blue jeans and a baseball cap, a T shirt, and tennis shoes. Just curious.


30 January 2013 at 06:10  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Dodo,

By calling a minority of Jews "fanatical" you must be a vicious anti-Semite and (say it with me) worse than Hitler. (This kind of programmed response is really annoying, isn't it?)

30 January 2013 at 06:41  
Blogger John Magee said...

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30 January 2013 at 07:17  
Blogger John Magee said...

Corrigan

Facts are facts, especially if they are quotes from from the mouths of the crazies or are documented events by the international press.

It's interesting to see how a story like this makes "Christians" here uncomfortable and angry the subject was even brought up... When it's there churches being desecrated!

I suppose I will be called a "Hitler" by some for posting the true stories about the "Price Tag" desecrations of churches in Israel which is a weird concept too when you think about it. Hitler had nothing to do with the truth.

Fanatic ultra Orthodox Jews who attack and desecrate churches in Israel using the name "Price Tag" for their acts should be condemned and brought to the attention of the world just as a desecration of a Jewish Synagogue with painted swastika's must be made public and condemned too.

The truth has to be said that the desecration of Christian churches anywhere in the world is at the bottom of the list of media liberal outrage and concern.

Muslims routinely desecrate and destroy ancient Orthodox Christian churches and monasteries in Kosovo (NATO and UN "peace keeping" troops are ordered not to interfere!), Egypt, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, etc and these examples of violence and hatred of Christians never make headlines in the Western media. I wonder why?

It never changes and neither does the double standard by the liberal media against Christians.

Most people (including many Christians) sit on their thumbs, look at the ceiling with their mouths open, and roll their eyes when any mention of the horrific persecution and violence Christians are suffering today in majority Muslim nations is mentioned.

30 January 2013 at 07:44  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Sour grapes, John Magee? Gee whiz .... over what?

30 January 2013 at 11:44  
Blogger Corrigan said...

John,

By making any criticism of any kind against any Israeli for any reason, right, wrong or indifferent, no matter how mild, no matter how justified, of course you will be called Hitler; that's kind of been the whole point of my postings on this thread. Cynicism, anybody?

30 January 2013 at 11:55  
Blogger John Magee said...

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30 January 2013 at 16:22  
Blogger John Magee said...

Corrigan

Well said and I couldn't agree you more. My point is that no country (including yours, mine, AND Israel) is above honest criticism for the fair and balanced reasons you pointed out.

It's the never ending saga of the double standard by the self loathing left wing media and their anti Western Christian Civilization helpers and supporters.

30 January 2013 at 16:54  
Blogger bluedog said...

M/s Kavanagh @ 00.38, Jesus Christ was only Jewish on his mother's side.

30 January 2013 at 22:32  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

bluedog

Very good ....

However, Rabbinical Judaism maintains that Jewishness comes from the mother, not the father.

On the other hand, the Karaite Jews reject this as well as the divine origin of the Talmud.

30 January 2013 at 23:09  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

30 January 2013 at 23:45  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Bluedog,

Miss K will do, not the silly "Ms" and technically Dr K ,I don't want to a pompous oaf!

I think there are a few Christians here who think that the deity is an Englishman... but as Dodo points out Jesus's mother was Jewish, so whatever else you belief that bit is correct.

30 January 2013 at 23:48  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

31 January 2013 at 16:20  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 February 2013 at 05:46  

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