Sunday, November 18, 2012

Rich, powerful Jews annihilate poor, innocent Palestinians

His Grace has received numerous requests to provide a thread on the war (for that it is) being waged in Israel/Gaza. Well, here it is. His Grace was somewhat reticent to venture into this territory, for whenever he does so he is invariably accused of being biased. God forbid. His Grace is impeccably neutral and unashamedly impartial on the question of Israel..

'Israel pounds Gaza..'? (You may have heard that before..) Funny, isn't it, how the BBC has never mentioned Gaza pounding Israel, which it does incessantly. Indeed, the sirens frequently wail in Ashkelon, Pit'hat Shalom and Shaar HaNegev, as Gaza pounds Israeli civilians of whatever gender, age or creed. But only when Israel justifiably retaliates does the BBC bother to report the 'pounding'. It is as though these evil Jews were responding to a Palestinian peashooter with a nuclear bomb.

Tit-for-tat is never going to resolve this conflict. There is error on both sides: civilians are dying on both sides. But it must be observed that Hamas are awfully fond of using their women and children as human shields. Hamas don't care if they kill or injure men, women or children; military or civilian; Jew or Muslim. The jihadi-Islamists of Gaza don’t really mind where their little firework display lands or who gets injured or killed. That's why they're now pounding Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. All they care about is terrorising the Jewish State and ending the Zionist conspiracy.

Yes, Gazan jihadi ideology is understandable; excusable, even, because Israel is the illegitimate state and occupying power, and the Jews are the main obstacle to world peace. It’s causal, you see. And the only resolution is the eradication of Israel, so the moment it lifts a finger to defend itself, it is criticised like no other nation on earth. Israel is the eternal aggressor; never the victim. Jews are perpetual occupiers and murderers; never the one suing for peace. The BBC/Guardian response inculcates the nation with the belief that Hamas are just poor, innocent Palestinians trying to do their best against the rich, powerful Jews who really rule the world. This cartoon isn't from Nazi Germany: it is from The Guardian this week.

“War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” - John Stuart Mill

153 Comments:

Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

About time someone other than the BBC or Guardian spouting their bias said something.
Bless You.

"Tit-for-tat is never going to resolve this conflict. There is error on both sides: civilians are dying on both sides. But it must be observed that Hamas are awfully fond of using their women and children as human shields. Hamas don't care if they kill or injure men, women or children; military or civilian; Jew or Muslim."

There is indeed wrongs committed by both sides but please may we have truthful reporting of what really happened and matters or else we are locked in a stalemate as we refuse to see one side genuinely will never accept a peace and only wants the destruction of the other.

We are being made gullible intellectual patsies by swallowing ideological propaganda expressed as fact in this nation's media reporting and who it speaks to for a supposedly truthful expressed representation of what's actually happening on the ground.

E S Blofeld

18 November 2012 at 11:53  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

ps

It can be accomplished but we need the strength and character of the wisdom of Solomon to establish the truth and arrive at a judgment.

Two young women who lived in the same house and who both had an infant son came to Solomon for a judgement. One of the women claimed that the other, after accidentally smothering her own son while sleeping, had exchanged the two children to make it appear that the living child was hers. The other woman denied this and so both women claimed to be the mother of the living son and said that the dead boy belonged to the other.

After some deliberation, King Solomon called for a sword to be brought before him. He declared that there was only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. The liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaimed, "It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!" However, upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy's true mother cried out, "Please, My Lord, give her the live child—do not kill him!" Solomon instantly gave the live baby to the real mother, realizing that the true mother's instincts were to protect her child, while the liar revealed that she did not truly love the child. The reputation of the king greatly increased when all the people of Israel heard of this wise judgment.

If only our media's reputation could be so increased by sincerely looking at what is presented to them as fact?

Blofeld

18 November 2012 at 11:57  
Blogger IanCad said...

"Death To Israel"
"Drive Them Into The Sea"

As far as I'm concerned Israel can do anything that it deems necessary to defend its people and territories from the Arabs and the Persians.

Enough Already! Time to take the gloves off.


The West knew not what it sowed when it supported the "Arab Spring"

18 November 2012 at 12:48  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Blofeld "The liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaimed, "It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!""

Could this retort really have happened? The King decreed to give them half a baby and the real mother resigned, ""Please, My Lord, give her the live child—do not kill him!"

What every Socialist says in these instances is "mine! I've won!" They never say, "OK, give them back half of what is already theirs". There is no conscience.

This story therefore, is a Semite's Wet Dream where the criminal says "fair cop, Iz wot Idz done" because a lateral thinking solution is impossible for those who live their whole lives out of a box-set.

If Solomon had said, "this is a capital offence and a life must be taken; if not an adult's, then the baby's" the real mother may come forward to let her genes live beyond hers; but then, if like many fathers who kill their children then themselves to prevent their spouses corrupting the children's minds into drugs, prostitution, homoidentity and despair... the real mother would prefer the child to die before being exposed to such evil.

Solomon, if he had a whole brain and not a gaggle of girls, would only have had to ask "who would she say was the real mother?"

18 November 2012 at 12:57  
Blogger Kinderling said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 November 2012 at 12:58  
Blogger len said...

Had a request from David Hathaway(Christian Minister))to pray for the Holocaust survivers in Israel. (David Hathaway / Prophetic Vision / Eurovision
www.eurovision.org.uk/)

These survivors of the worst that Nazi Germany could throw at them are having their lives threatened again by those who[ again] deny their right to exist.

Of course the Palestinians are suffering too and their lives are constantly put at risk by' Hamas 'who position their rocket batteries in or very near civilian sites.

If Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel(which is all the Israeli authorities request) then the present conflict would cease.

There is a much greater problem which seems to be unsolvable(by man at least) which is the spiritual force which opposes Israel(and have done so throughout history) and God`s plans for the people of Israel.

18 November 2012 at 13:48  
Blogger Tommy said...

Its the bbc, what does anyone expect, a left wing propoganda machine that we have to pay for.

18 November 2012 at 14:02  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Amen to that, Your Grace. Hammer, nail, well struck.

18 November 2012 at 14:33  
Blogger Paul T said...

Well said your Grace and Len
I'm afraid this struggle won't end until the evil that influences this world is also at an end.

18 November 2012 at 15:16  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Blaming BBC leftist bias does not really wash, Miliband and Cameron are both Zionist friends of Israel

Western leaders invariably lend support to Arab Spring uprisings willy nilly and are left with Islamic States antigonistic to their own purported zionist cause

Like their Zionist influence on domestic British Politics, everything they do seems contradictory to our own interests

So what is the agenda, other than encouraging general chaos and havoc in all lands

18 November 2012 at 15:27  
Blogger Berserker said...

Do people realise the extent of the collaboration between the Arab/Muslim world and Nazi Germany right from Hitler's first beginnings of power right through the Second World War and beyond.

During the Second World War, The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, created the Bosnian Muslim Waffen SS and were the direct cause of mass extermination of the Serbs not to mention the burning of churches and villages. Yet the Serbs now get all the bad publicity.

Egypt was no better, there was a Nazi Party in Egypt called 'Young Egypt" (Nasser was a member) and later Sadat had strong Nazi connections. The Syrian Ba'athists are imbued with Nazi thought - if you can call it that. The list is endless - Many muslim Algerians joined the SS during WW2.

This is just touching on the evil that is Muslim thought. In fact, the Nazi's considered them more Nazi than Nazi's.

18 November 2012 at 16:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Archbishop old fellow, the Inspector shares your pain. You see, he too wishes only for peace in that area.

But we owe it to the world to highlight Islamic violence, don’t you think. As the muslims herd their own orphans around their rocket batteries, launch, and leave the hapless little ones to their fate, we must concentrate on the disgusting truth that in majority of the worlds conflicts, both full blown designed or spontaneous acts of hatred, you will find bearded Johnny Islam praying to his god of filth, whom we know as Satan.

Meanwhile we wait for a miracle. Not a resolution to the Palestinian-Israel conflict, that’s asking a bit too much, but the miracle that the BBC will one day recognise the truth. That the Palestinians are being used by militant Islam at a terrible cost to them.


18 November 2012 at 16:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

An excellent and timely post YG.

This time, there is no Mubarak to hold back the Islamists and this will affect us all. The BBC and the stupid berks running the EU realise that Middle East oil and the Suez Canal is vital to Europe and I suspect this why regime changes in Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, Syria (and probably Jordan sooner or later) are being feted as 'liberators' to keep the Muslims on side - for the time being. But this short terminism will be our undoing if allowed to continue.

In the confusion of all this unrest Iran is stoking the fires on all of Israel's borders and fronts, by supplying missiles and all varieties of arms and ammunition to all and sundry. As the only power in the region intact enough to put down any domestic dissent it is now the dominant player against Israel and has no interest in peace between Jew and Arab, it is of course the perfect distraction while their long term plans for Islamification Shi'a style proceed steadily until they reach Saudi Arabia and Mecca.

The West HAS to back Israel, if only to preserve its own future viability - Israel is the canary in the coal mine - but who is listening?

18 November 2012 at 16:12  
Blogger Dave said...

If Israel wasn't so influential it would have suffered a regime change long, long ago. Why Britain simply has to support Israel I just don't know.

18 November 2012 at 16:38  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The reality Israel must face, is that Jewish Political influence has destroyed the West

Gaza is not the issue, Iran is not the issue, the issue is Jewish Ideology has destroyed it's own former support base, to the point Anti-Zionism is Patriotic regardless of what the Islamists do

18 November 2012 at 16:59  
Blogger Kinderling said...

"The West HAS to back Israel, if only to preserve its own future viability - Israel is the canary in the coal mine - but who is listening?"

We are not listening. We are asking "why is the distraction being played out now and what real event is it masking?"

18 November 2012 at 17:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Why Britain simply has to support Israel I just don't know.

Try - It being the only democracy in the ME?
Try - it being the product of the Sykes/Picot agreement and British Mandate?
Try - the fact that all of it's neighbours would deny it the right to exist?
Try - if Israel falls, what will happen to the people?



18 November 2012 at 17:14  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

We are not listening

Who is this 'we' you have elected to speak for?

Don't waste your time telling me it's an election feint either - I don't buy it.

The rockets have been raining down all year while Israel toed the US line of appeasing the Islamists. The 50 mile range Fajr5 missiles from Iran have been seen being delivered in the past few weeks and are now being fired.

Its being played out now because while there is unrest just about everywhere and Europe/US is set for disengaging in Afgan and are almost bankrupt, the opportunities to are wide open to rub out Israel (they think}.

18 November 2012 at 17:28  
Blogger John Thomas said...

Britain support8ing Israel? Miliband and Cameron Zionists, friends of Israel? Soon people on this site will be claiming the the Brazenly Biased Corp. are all for Israel too (oh, apparently some nuthead does claim that - but I fancy he's ex-BBC, so, bound to be warped ...)

18 November 2012 at 17:31  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Anyone wondering what would become of the Jews on submission to Islam, then allow the Inspector to direct you to the film “Bhowani Junction” with the excellent Stewart Granger. Of particular note is the massacre at the railway station. Islam again, unfortunately.

Of course, there is always the prospect of columns of Israeli refugees being machine gunned and rocket attacked by muslim aircraft, fall of France 1940 style. Though of course, as the Jew would say – “Where to run to ? Better to die at home...”

Any objection of these scenarios by you idealistic faint hearts here, let’s have them now...



18 November 2012 at 18:02  
Blogger Anglican said...

As far as I understand the situation (I am welcome to be corrected on matters of fact), before Israel killed the Hamas military chief Israel had not targeted Gaza for well over a year (or several years). But in the last year Hamas has launched over 500 rockets at Israel (mainly if not entirely on civilian targets).

In the week before the Israeli strike, over 200 rockets had been fired at Israel by Hamas. If this is correct, the Israeli strike was retaliation against persistent Hamas aggression.

Whether the extent of Israeli retaliation was wise is a separate question. Constant bombardment on civilian populations (even if the aim was to destroy military weapons) does not break their spirit, as WW2 bombing in Britain & Germany demonstrated.

18 November 2012 at 18:12  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

"why is the distraction being played out now and what real event is it masking?"

Wise words from Kinderling!

Zionism was a political ideology before it had a state and the West has been under the influence of that ideology for decades

The decline of the West is inseperable from the politics at the helm

18 November 2012 at 18:31  
Blogger John Henson said...

Dave said...
If Israel wasn't so influential it would have suffered a regime change long, long ago


Israel does undergo regular regime change, by a process (of which you seem to be unaware) known as "general elections".

Uniquely in the Middle East, Israel is a democracy.

18 November 2012 at 18:33  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The only democracy you get in Israel is a choice between left leaning Zionists or right leaning Zionists

Which is the same form of democracy that has turned the west into same shit different dickhead dictatorships

18 November 2012 at 19:00  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Zionism was a political ideology before it had a state and the West has been under the influence of that ideology for decades

The decline of the West is inseperable from the politics at the helm


Are you sure you haven't passed through a time portal and stepped out in to in a 1920s Germany?

18 November 2012 at 19:11  
Blogger bluedog said...

BitB @ 18.31 says, 'Zionism was a political ideology before it had a state and the West has been under the influence of that ideology for decades.'

Patently untrue given that the USA opposed immigration to the US of European Jews during the 1930s and '40s and opposed the Suez Campaign by UK, France and Israel in 1956. If subsequently the US has had a reversal of policy it is because they have realised, as Dreadnaught astutely points out, that Israel is the canary in a very dangerous coal mine. A large faction in the British Foreign Office has always been known as the Camel Corps and enthusiatically pro-Arab rather than pro-Israel. A recent French Foreign Minister describe Israel as 'That shitty little country". Hardly under the influence of Zionism there, wouldn't you agree?

A couple of events may have escaped your notice. Firstly there are now increasing demonstrations against the Jordanian monarchy - not a good sign. This communicant has always felt that Abdullah would end up as a permanent resident of Virginia Water. Secondly the Salafist wing of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is talking about the demolition of the Sphinx and the Pyramids at Giza. Apparently these ancient monuments are symbols of pagan idolatry (unlike the Kabaa) and an offence to Islam.

Think this through. If Israel falls, apart from the mass slaughter of its people, what would the Salafists demolish in the Holy Land? The Church of the Holy Sepulchre? The Wailing Wall?

So much to do, so little time.

18 November 2012 at 19:21  
Blogger steve said...

Why does Israeli ordnance always land on weddings and funerals? Same in Afghanistan with American bombs. If anybody could shed any light on this I would be grateful.

18 November 2012 at 19:38  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Best comment I've read on this today.

The international community and the media must begin to differentiate between war crimes committed by terrorists and legitimate acts of self-defense engaged in by a responsible military.

Failing to emphasize that distinction encourages terrorism and erodes the moral basis of the important principle of just warfare.

(Alan M. Dershowitz - Haaretz)

18 November 2012 at 19:54  
Blogger rohan malik said...

fair comment
hamas has to live in today. accept israel, establish two nations and move on. firing rockets into civilians is an act of terrorism.

18 November 2012 at 20:20  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Sometimes (see recent threads) I despair of what is said on this blog.

However, when I see the solid steadfastness with which anything Bred in the Bone says on this topic is ignored and/or comprehensively rejected, my faith in local humanity takes a massive leap.

18 November 2012 at 20:47  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Dodo

Failing to emphasize that distinction encourages terrorism and erodes the moral basis of the important principle of just warfare.

It doesn't much matter what the 'international community' or the media think about such things. In practice, the only group that actually gets punished for violating the 'principle of just warfare' is the defeated. That is the overwhelming lesson of history. So the Palestinians are pretty much free to do what they want - subject only to the constraint of Israeli victory & retaliation. Who after all will fight the Palestinians besides the Israelis?

The only effective restraint on warfare is self-restraint, and self-restraint is inversely proportional to the risk entailed by defeat. You can postulate any collection of rules you like. Unless you have some ability to enforce them, the rules don't mean a thing.

carl

18 November 2012 at 20:48  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I agree with Darter Noster on these matters, so long as anything I comment is rejected Darter Noster has no fear of any real opposition to his aims

18 November 2012 at 21:01  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

@ Bred in the Bone: Wat yuz on aboot canny lad?

You've made lots of bizarre accusations about Zionism being the guiding force behind the malaise of Western politics, but have somewhat failed to account for the fact that anti-Israel bias is the dominant position in much Western political discourse.

What is this? The Jews playing the long game?

18 November 2012 at 21:14  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Carl

The rules of a 'just war' is important for Christians when considering how to exercise democratic influence. It is also relevant to Christian politicians when making decisions. It is one of the principles that distinquishes Christians from National Socialists and Communists and now Islamists.

Objectively, the government of the State of Israel has a duty to protect its citizens from attacks aimed at Israel to instill fear and terror. Objectively, they are have a duty to end this by removing the weapons turned on them and removing the leaders promoting this.

Proportionality is a requirement too and avoiding unnecessary deaths and particularly of non-combatants. The Israelis appear to be carefully targetting their attacks and attempting to keep Palestinian civilian deaths to a minimum. Let's not overlook the fact they have the power to simply bomb the whole of Gazza into the ground!

The rules are about moral responsibility, duty and restraint and mean everything!

18 November 2012 at 21:21  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Bluedog the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty was Jewish inspired and would contradict your views about the US policy on immigration

The US may have opposed Jewish migrants during the period you mention because they supported the creation of Israel, or did that not occur to you

18 November 2012 at 21:24  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Darter I previously agreed with you but now take that back, as you are obviously in denial of the influence of AIPAC or EJC

18 November 2012 at 21:31  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Perhaps it didn't occur to Bluedog that a complete tit of an anti-semite was going to bring up such total and utter bullshit...

It didn't immediately occur to me, but hey, you never know what might come up...

18 November 2012 at 21:34  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

What are AIPAC and EJC?r

18 November 2012 at 21:37  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Poor Darter Noster has resorted to the tired old anti-semite line

18 November 2012 at 21:46  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Not the ‘rules of war’ again. The rules of war of those issues talked of by brandy sipping types in arch chairs, as the victims of war lie on their backs with their feet slightly apart.

There are NO rules gentlemen. To give war rules makes it a legitimate occupation by humanity. In war, you do what MUST be done...

18 November 2012 at 21:48  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 November 2012 at 21:48  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Americans have a land where they want to be free to own guns, only they must be anti-semitic for not wanting to give them up

18 November 2012 at 21:56  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Tired old anti-semite line?

What else do you expect me to call the "zionists rule the world" crap that spews from your keyboard?

18 November 2012 at 21:56  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Come on you idle bastards - the full force of this website was quick enough to jump on me when I was believed to be violating catholic theology; where is the full force of that epic blogosphere outrage now, Cressiida, Dodo and others, when an anti-semitic prick like Bred in the Bone gets going? Or do you just reserve your bile for those who dare to talk about gays, rather than jews?

18 November 2012 at 22:13  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Darter Noster
Bit of "kettle/pot' here but do remember your calling and behave accordingly!

Why not leave the rudeness and cussing to the likes of the Inspector and myself.

Inspector
War is is legitimate under the correct circumstances. We all have the duty to defend ourselves by the use of reasonable force and so too do nation states.

John Magee
The thread is about the legitimacy of recent Israeli action against Hamas in Gazza.

Do you have an opinion on this?

18 November 2012 at 22:22  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Darter Nosta

For goodness, man! To be honest I often don't understand Bone. And, in any case, he is entitled to express his view.

I am not an "idle bastard"! Those who challenged your Catholicism were Catholics who did so because of concern you were misrepresenting the faith you claimed to hold.

If Bone be an "anti-semitic prick" then so be it. If you think you can change his mind, well go to it. However, if he expressed anti-semitic views under the cover of Catholicism then he would be challenged.

18 November 2012 at 22:34  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

My calling obliges me to love everyone, not to
Iike everyone. Priests, deacons, religious, and everyone else are only human, and that can involve rude words.

Of considerably greater worry, I would have thought, would be being openly racist against jewish people. I know from personal experience that you and Cressida can descend
Iike the wrath of God on sinners, so why not do so on idiiot anti semites?

18 November 2012 at 22:36  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Darter Noster you equate opposition to a political ideology with anti-semite

If opposing a political ideology implies I am racist, then you support my claim there is no alternative to Zionism, without being accused of ant-semitism

Thank you for backing my stance

18 November 2012 at 22:44  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 November 2012 at 22:50  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Bred

Just in case you are wondering where the accusations of ant-semitism come from.

It is because your play book seems to be taken straight out of the protocols of the elders of zion.

18 November 2012 at 22:51  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 November 2012 at 22:54  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Darter, the stance of the Bone is his business. There may come a time when he changes his mind-set. But until then, we must respect his opinion, although we may not agree with it. As for our ‘bile’ and gays, it is rather obvious that the gay lifestyle is inherently wrong. Have you noticed how our resident gay has gone to ground. Personal matters to sort out, so he has...

18 November 2012 at 23:01  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Darter Noster said ...
"I know from personal experience that you and Cressida can descend Iike the wrath of God on sinners, so why not do so on idiiot anti semites?"

For my part, maybe it is because I thought you were worth the effort.

You also commented ...
"My calling obliges me to love everyone, not to Iike everyone. Priests, deacons, religious, and everyone else are only human, and that can involve rude words."

Trust me on this, should you pursue your calling you will unacceptable encounter all manner of views amongst Catholics. I know this from experience. Surely, in Ministry, it will be views and behaviour you must dislike - not the person?

And I did answer your question. To put it another way, pearls before swine.

18 November 2012 at 23:02  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Your Grace,

Wonderful article as usual. If only the terrorists would stop bombing Israeli civilians, then Israel would not have to go to war to defend herself.

Does anyone on this site not think any government of the UK would tolerate the continued bombardment of British cities day in day out, by a group of terrorists? And not be forced by the public, the media,to do something about it?

Whilst at the same time a country that wanted to exterminate the British from the face of the earth was building an atomic weapon and arming the very same terrorists who were launching missiles at British cities?

Israel is a state and a state has a duty to protect the citizens of that state. Never mind all this silly stuff about Zionist conspiracies.

18 November 2012 at 23:08  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Hannah, thanks for that, I have never read it though, are you sure anything I have mentioned are in it

I just desire an English politics with a free voice for the English, seperate from Zionist or Islamist influences

As for Zionist conspiricies, they can conspire all they want in Israel, if they have no influence here other than to be on good terms

18 November 2012 at 23:09  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo, war is failure of the human. To give it rules is to justify it as an option. Enough of this self delusion !

Engage in war, when there is no other option, but as for Afghanistan, NO NO NO. It is NOT war, it is a police action. The west is fearful of Islamic violence. Fine, then keep a damn close eye on Islamists in the UK. Throw them out if need be. Don't let the 2001 disaster in the US bind us to US aggressive foreign policy for evermore. For in that policy is revenge – everybody knows that !




18 November 2012 at 23:10  
Blogger Fantana said...

Land area Middle East + North Africa 8.6 million sq km. Land area Israel 16,000 sq km. Arabs, get over it and sort your own lands out......

18 November 2012 at 23:12  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dear Mr Magoo

"I'm all for Zionism so long as indigenous white Europeans are allowed to feel the same ethnic identity and use the same religious and racial standards to define who is a citizen of their tribal homelands as Zionists are allowed use to define who is a Jew and who can immigrate to their ancient "homeland" Israel." Ernst is all for Britishism but it appears those ungrateful incoming immigrants have no desire to identify and use the same religious or racial standards to define their citizenship here in blessed old Blighty. Think Israel would call it 'Having Standards' and keeping their peoples safe whereas we have none and let all come in whosoever and hope they will blow us to kingdom come should we and our lifestyle be not to their liking!

"Islamists,Zionists, Nazi's. They are all fundamentally the same. Their self proclaimed "superiority" are based on race, religion, and past or present ownership of land." Which of the three desire to harm no-one who is different but be left alone to live in shalom in their 'Homeland' and worship God as they please?

"I am fed up with all three." Not half as fed up as Ernst is with reading your myopic claptrap!

"None of the above care about freedom unless it's for themselves." Did you not say you were RC? *huge chuckles and chortles*

Would that be the same freedom you withheld from 16th century English men and women. Shall we make that a fantastic five then or are you claiming Catechism 1260 ;

"Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity."

"Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith," so says Benedict XVI at Vatican City on 30th November 2005.

Even saw a photo of John Paul 2 kissing the Koran..Can you see St Paul kissing the Bhagavad Gita before the assembled churches in a show of brotherly love for humanity.
For the best part of a century now, the Roman Catholic Church has been trying to establish a "dialogue" with the Muslim world while at the same time showing hostility towards Israel., which you have kindly demonstrated.

You wonder why Israel is strict on which hypocrites it lets in or keeps out. Bless?

SSSHHHHHHH now old sport, least your sins be brought to mind and your love of "the teaching of contempt and Deicide" is manifest for those who can still see it at work well over a millennial later.

Blofeld

ps

It has been said that Jews are hated in paradoxes: Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race – but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world. The Jews are hated for stubbornly maintaining their separateness – and, when they do assimilate – for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages. The Jews are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a Chosen-People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex. It seems that the Jews just can't win, can they?.

Jesus himself said, "Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do." There's nothing quite like a Vatican 1 RC bearing a grudge?

18 November 2012 at 23:17  
Blogger Marie1797 said...


Sign this petition.

To European leaders and all UN member states:

We urge you to endorse the legitimate bid for recognition of the state of Palestine and the reaffirmation of the rights of the Palestinian people. It is time to turn the tide on decades of failed peace talks, end the occupation and move towards peace based on two states."

http://www.avaaz.org/en/palestine_worlds_next_nation_uk/?ctTHGdb

18 November 2012 at 23:52  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

DN I challeged you because of your erroneous view of repentance,according to Catholic theology. If you recall I continually reiterated that I had no wish to join the homosexual debate .So the only sinner I was harsh with was you.I know you are trying to imply that I am a gay basher which is untrue.

Heresy even expressed in ignorance is completely unacceptable particularly when it involves someone who has been entrusted to teach the Catholic faith.A conversion theology course
a Catholic does not make.There is more to it than that.You deserved the pummeling you got..stop whining and be a man.( A Catholic one!)




18 November 2012 at 23:53  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Why not challenge anti-semitism, Cressida? Or is that less important than your mistken belief that I was infringing church rules?

Actually, why am I even bothering to ask, because of course it was. Instead of the beauty and hope of Christianity, all you can do is use Christianity as an excuse to scream at people. I did not take a pummeling off you; how can I take a pummelling off someone I simply pity?

I pity someone like you who can take a religion of love, hope and beauty and turn it into a pathetic screaming match. I suspect you're aware of that issue, but you're too defective to do amything about it.

Anyway: scream at me, shout at me, comdemn me Cressida: if I do something that you hate, I know I am doing something that Giod loves.

19 November 2012 at 00:09  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Pss

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

We see rockets rain down on one piece of land and tolerate it yet when another rains them back we castigate it?

After raining down rockets and suicide bombing a land, One demands back the land to be given that was lost to another by trying to annihilate them, by promising this will bring peace but once given the land back ,the rockets fall again like spring rain.

One demands all land back that they lost by aggression yet each concession is met by more demands for more concession but none forthcoming from them.

We in the west perpetuate this false concession dealing as some way of placating and righting some wrong yet each concession makes the worst scenario ever more likely and deadly!!

Our tolerance of this nonsense and actual vigorous encouragement of it, makes the inevitable evil a stain on our nation and a moral crime.

psss

Marie1797 said...

John 8:44 - You do your master's work!

19 November 2012 at 00:12  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Darter Nosta

For God's sake, get over yourself and your hurt ego.

If you had been on this blog for any time you would know more about the people who post comments.

Why not turn your attention to 'Catholics' on here who misrepresent our faith or those who seek to dilute it? Or those who level untruths against Catholic history or misrepresent Catholic teaching? There's plenty of examples on this thread already.

19 November 2012 at 00:27  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Ernsty said ...

"Jesus himself said, "Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do."

And I thought He meant these words for all of mankind.

19 November 2012 at 00:31  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Show me historical examples and documents that prove Islam, Zionists, and Nazi's guarantee the total freedom for people of other beliefs and races to live among them as equals in everyway and will suffer no persecution.

That Jesus you are always blubbering about here never talked about land, hatred of others based on race or class, and most definately asked us when he took that Roman coin into his hand and looked at both sides and said in the Gospels, "render on to Caesar's what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". Your precious Jesus never cared about land on this earth did he?

I mentioned by name Islam, the Nazi's, and Zionism and how each of them discriminate based on religion, race, and claims to land or territories they once owned. I did NOT mention Israel or individual Jews OR individual Muslims or individual Nazi's either German or otherwise did I?

If you want to read about a "grudge" against the Jews then read the hate filled anti-Semitism Martin Luther wrote that fills volumns and was passed out all over Lutheran Europe during and after his lifetime as well as the anti Jewish trash John Calvin also dreamed up.

The Middle East has given us great 3 of the religions of the world and it has also given us, in the name of those same great religions, great suffering and discrimination which continues because of their obsessions with the very things their religions are supposed to hate: greed for land and a feeling of superiority over fellow human beings.

The Nazi's were a Nordic cult that had exactly the same aims based on the same claims: race, land, and their Nordic cults.

You said "Think Israel would call it 'Having Standards' and keeping their peoples safe whereas we have none and let all come in whosoever and hope they will blow us to kingdom come should we and our lifestyle be not to their liking!"

So it's fine for Israel to let in only their "kind" and have "standards" and then you whine about your country not doing the same by it's opening it's doors to the 3rd world and Muslims.

Thank you. You said it perfectly.

Case closed.

19 November 2012 at 00:47  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo said

"And I thought He meant these words for all of mankind."

He did old bird but I thought I'd qualify it for the RC's here as they appear to have forgotten that "They" were to be included also in the request and not bastardised as so often happened in the land of Tiberia and it's other lands within it's religious empire from the early 2nd century onwards?!

For all your RC that cannot stay away from this blessed blog.

When John Paul II kissed the Koran, what went through his noggin?

Did the Pope, who in fact was the supposed "infallible" voice of the Roman Catholic Church not remember what The Koran said about Jesus and the true nature of God?

Did he not know how The Koran denigrates Jesus the Christ to "only a messenger of Allah" status?

or

Koran 61:6;

Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One.

Thought you were the means of salvation and held the keys to the door, Looks like you'd let any old sorts in, behind the owners back. We need new door security. Here's your coat and your taxi awaiteth.

Blofeld

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 00:51  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

I ask once again why Cranmer tolerates the nasty language of some contributors this time Bred in the Bone.
He complains that in Israel the only democracy is a choice between left-wing Zionists and right-wing Zionists.
Whereas in most other democracies, voters get a chance every general election to vote for a party that wishes to abolish the country, abandon its cities and farms, and evacuate its citizens elsewhere.

19 November 2012 at 01:03  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

What makes you think I have my ego invested in an internet forum (albeit an entertaining one)?

My concern is that the beautiful religion of love and hope which I know Catholicism to be should not be turned into a system of self-righteous shouting at perceived rule- breakers.

19 November 2012 at 01:09  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Pope JP II, who was shot by a Muslim in front of Peter's Basilica in May of 1981 and almost killed by Muslim al-Quaeda terrorists on a visit to the Phillipines in the 1990's in an assassination plot which was foiled by the Filipino police, made the hudge mistake by kissing that koran on his visit to Syria many years ago. He did it as an act of reconciliation hoping Islamic religious leaders would preach against Jihad and attempt to "reform" the hatred of Jews and Christians all through the Koran and Hadiths.

He should have known better but no one can accuse Catholics (or Christians) for not trying to hand the olive branch to Islam. We do it over and over ane over and Muslims have atcually increased their perseuction of minority Christians in majority Muslim nations all over the Islamic world. Egypt, Nigeria, and Pakistan, are only a few examples we hear of Muslims persecuting or killing Christians in the news almost every day.

Give Pope John Paul II some credit for doing the "Christian thing" when he kissed that odious koran at that mosque in Syria...trying to love thy neighbor.

19 November 2012 at 01:27  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Darter Nostar
Well, leave it be then!

From where I'm standing (well sitting, actually) you're doing your own fair bit of self-righteous shouting.

Care to answer Ernsy's question about Blessed John Paul kissing the Koran? Or are you too idle and expect others to do so?

It is a serious question that demands an answer.

For what it's worth, I believe John Paul made a mistake. It was a fallible act by a man. By showing respect for a gift he lay himself open to being criticised for respecting Islam.

Ms Gasper
It's not your blog, now is it?

So if you don't like it here ....

Ernsty
Was John Paul also wrong for visiting a Jewish Synagogue?

19 November 2012 at 01:37  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Mr Magoo

Show me historical examples and documents that prove Islam, Zionists, and Nazi's guarantee the total freedom for people of other beliefs and races to live among them as equals in everyway and will suffer no persecution.(Who on earth are these 'Zionists' you are talking about, lumping together with those other nice folk?. Let me assist you as your understanding appears confused at best?

Israel is a country in the Middle East situated between Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and the Mediteranian Sea and is a country established in 1948 which has taken in Jewish refugees from many countries primarily the Muslim countries of the Middle East and North Africa plus parts of Europe.

Israelis are citzens who live in Israel

Jews are people who follow Judaism as their religion or defined as Jew: An Orthodox jewish definition: A person who is jewish because they converted by Orthodox standards, or their mother was jewish by orthodox standards. as Jew: Reform jew definition: A person who's mother OR father is jewish and performed certain acts of faith within a timely manner.Jew: State of Israel definition: A person who is Jewish by orthodox standards or converted by orthodox standards accepted by the official Israeli rabbinate AND can prove it (p£**$s a lot of people off, ERnst is informed!) Jew: An Anglo definition: A person who has a mother who was a jew, a father who was a jew or converted, or practices judaism, or is of Ashkenazi or Sephardic or Mizrahi or generally prescribes to or has some attribute of "yiddishim" heritage.
Jew: A Nazi definition: A person who has at least three jewish grandparents. Jew: A Neo-Nazi definition: Greatly varies but usually involves Khazars and the like, you may even know a few of these neo nazi types socan ask them in person?!).

Zionists are people who believe Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people and who supports the State of Israel's right to exist.

Anti-Semetic is a person or persons who harbor racial prejudice against a Jew or a group of Jews for who they are and what they believe about them! Trust that helps?)

That Jesus you are always blubbering about here never talked about land, hatred of others based on race or class, and most definately asked us when he took that Roman coin into his hand and looked at both sides and said in the Gospels, "render on to Caesar's what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". Your precious Jesus never cared about land on this earth did he? ("Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this." Think He did but not just at that time or yet but soon!!)

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 01:46  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

I mentioned by name Islam, the Nazi's, and Zionism and how each of them discriminate based on religion, race, and claims to land or territories they once owned. I did NOT mention Israel or individual Jews OR individual Muslims or individual Nazi's either German or otherwise did I? (again: Zionists are people who believe Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people and who supports the State of Israel's right to exist. Can you see, Mr Magoo?)

If you want to read about a "grudge" against the Jews then read the hate filled anti-Semitism Martin Luther wrote that fills volumes and was passed out all over Lutheran Europe during and after his lifetime as well as the anti Jewish trash John Calvin also dreamed up.(From which Church did the monk Luther and the Lawyer Calvin garner this hatred..Hmmm, let me think??)

The Middle East has given us great 3 of the religions of the world and it has also given us, in the name of those same great religions, great suffering and discrimination which continues because of their obsessions with the very things their religions are supposed to hate: greed for land and a feeling of superiority over fellow human beings (How very RC also, don't you think but strange as Zionist are a statement of right to exist in a specific place rather than a religious belief whereas RCC has been around yonks has it no has foibles about all those nasty things you state but Ernst is in the Greek called a 'phrontistes' whereas you are not!.

The Nazi's were a Nordic cult that had exactly the same aims based on the same claims: race, land, and their Nordic cults.(Zionist are a statement of right to exist in a specific place!)

You said "Think Israel would call it 'Having Standards' and keeping their peoples safe whereas we have none and let all come in whosoever and hope they will blow us to kingdom come should we and our lifestyle be not to their liking!"

So it's fine for Israel to let in only their "kind" and have "standards" and then you whine about your country not doing the same by it's opening it's doors to the 3rd world and Muslims.(Jewish people have a fast track to citizenship because, and you maybe unaware of this salient historical fact, Israel was set up to give Jews a safe place to go from persecution....because during WWII, Jews were not welcome most anywhere in the world.

However, non-Jews can & do immigrate to Israel, old boy. It's a longer process, more like standard immigration elsewhere. May Ernst suggest you call your Israeli embassy, where they will be happy to provide the details and point you in the right direction. Old Ernst presumes you visited Israel already on some RC pilgrimage and fell in love with the place, hence your anger and frustration that you may not be eligible to live there PERMANENTLY!

Thank you. You said it perfectly. (It's one of Ernst's virtues to help the ignorant, my boy!! Blessed are they that tolerate everything, for they shall not be made accountable for anything.)

Blofeld

Case closed. INDEED!!!!!!!

19 November 2012 at 01:56  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

ps

Me ole Magoo.

Can anyone immigrate to the Vatican city or is citizenship practically impossible to get if you're not a priest in the service of the Holy Roman Catholic church.?
So it's OK to let in only the professionally religious and even kick them out once the contract is finished. How very quaint but discriminatory??

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 02:05  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 November 2012 at 02:05  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Mr Magee (seeing that you now SEE) said, all pious like.

"Give Pope John Paul II some credit for doing the "Christian thing" when he kissed that odious koran at that mosque in Syria...trying to love thy neighbor."

The usual RC claptrap is that he was kissing it because he wanted to praise them for acknowledging the one god, Allah, who obviously all Christians worship also, just not His Son, HIS ONLY SON!!
You have come up with a quite novel explanation for this blasphemy, oooh, sorry, generosity of spirit. Thank God it' wasn't a Black Bible handed over to him eh, for.. umm, trying to love thy neighbour and forgive them and for their master's original sin. *huge guffaws*

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 02:16  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Blofeld

My country gives Israel over 6 billion USA $$$ in monetary and military aid each year which is an enormous share if not most of the money that pays Israel's bills to defend itself (Is the full amount met by yourself, out of your pocket?). I think I have a right( what right does this linking of US federal funds give you?. Is it not your terms under the Constitution of America rather give you those rights to express an opinion rather an implied payment from you for the defense of Israel!), since my tax dollars are being used to support Israel, to use my freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution of my country to be critical or praise Israel (not to be confused with Zionists) (Your definitions are incorrect so needed clarifying for you as you appear unaware what Zionism really means/IS)if I chose without being called names that do not apply to myself or having false accusations made about me.(Do man up, lad!!))

Thank you very much.(You are most welcome!!)

PS: I respect you enough to use your name. (See above now Ernst has applied eye balm for you)

Ernst Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 02:26  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Vatican City is an ecclesiastical or sacerdotal-monarchical (look that up) state, ruled by the Bishop of Rome—the Pope.

It is les than 1/5th a square mile in area.

During WW II, after September 8, 1943 when Italy surrendered and entered the War on the side of the Allies, hundreds if not several thousand Jews lived in Vatican City, many atcually camped out in St Peter's Basilica, safe from the Nazi's who occupied Rome after 1943.

If you want to live in Vatican City contact a real estate agent in Rome. Then, if you can find land to build yourself a home or find an apartment, I am sure you will be welcome. Vatican City is the home of the Universal Church and there are people there from almost every nation on earth and all races. The Vatican is protected by the Swiss Guard, men who come from the Roman Catholic cantons of Switzerland, and have protected the popes for centuries.

I am sure a Protestant like yourself would be more than welcome to live in the Vatican and if you could find a job and a place to live there I am certain that would be very happy. Helping weep St Peter's after it's closed every day would be a wonderful job for you. Nearby are lots of excellent Italian restaurants and pizza delivery is available too. Maybe you could even open your own chapel there for Protestant services?

Let me know how your house/apartment hunting in the Vatican turns out! One word of caution. Because there is almost no land available for building individual houses. That may be a bit of a problem.

19 November 2012 at 02:29  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

On April 13, 1986, Pope John Paul II became the first Catholic pope to visit a Jewish synagogue -- the Great Synagogue of Rome.

St Peter, the first pope, also visited many synagogues and so did the first 4 or 5 bishops of Rome who were converted Jews and also popes.

19 November 2012 at 02:36  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Mr Magee

"If you want to live in Vatican City contact a real estate agent in Rome. Then, if you can find land to build yourself a home or find an apartment, I am sure you will be welcome."
Only those with work permits or tourists are allowed to stay on a temporary basis in said apartments, there is no permanency unless you are a servant of the church!!
"That may be a bit of a problem." AAAAHH. I think it might be a problem I could get over and live with!!

"Helping (s)weep St Peter's after it's closed every day would be a wonderful job for you." I hear it's been full of rubbish for centuries and the stench reaches to Heaven itself. What a broom and shovel old Ernst would need to clear out that spiritual hovel.

No, ta.

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 02:39  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Blofeld

On April 13, 1986, Pope John Paul II became the first Catholic pope to visit a Jewish synagogue -- the Great Synagogue of Rome.(Good Lord, you make it sound like he condescended to the very gates of hell to preach the gospel..Jesus was the Messiah, The Promised King of the Jews, old sport. They were blinded for our sake!! Should it be so terrible and shocking to wait 1800 years to take the good news to them without a stake and faggots at the ready, for a change.

St Peter, the first pope, also visited many synagogues (Err, he was a Jew as were all the Apostles!!!*Shocking, outrageous even*)and so did the first 4 or 5 bishops of Rome (Myth) who were converted Jews and also popes.

Must Ernst get out the Eye Balm, ad infinitum!!)

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 02:48  
Blogger OldJim said...

I leave HG's blog for five minutes...

Bitb
So, to be clear - when British politicians support Israel, it's Zionism. When British politicians do something that weakens Israel, it's not anti-Zionism, it's a "contradiction" in their agenda. That's a strange way to talk to start with. If I said that every time America fails to support us internationally it was "Anti-Britishism" and you then started listing occasions when they had helped Britain, and I said "Oh, but that's not Britishism. That's a contradiction in their agenda." You might reasonably ask what reason I had to believe that, and why I had stopped talking out of my mouth.

You said that "the only democracy you get in Israel is a choice between left leaning Zionists and right leaning Zionists"
Yes, I believe this to be true. A "Zionist" is someone who supports the existence of the state of Israel, right? We agree on that definition, yes? I mean, I could say "the only democracy you get in France is between left leaning Franconists and right leaning Franconists"
Do you really expect France to have a political party dedicated to the destruction of France, or for this party to be popular? If that party doesn't exist, is France less of a democracy? Then why is it such a surprise that Israel's political parties are committed to Israel's continued existence? I would be shocked if they weren't. Doesn't make Israel "not a real democracy" if you ask me...

You say you "just desire an English politics with a free voice for the English, separate from Zionist influences"

Presumably an Englishman can be a fan of Swedish cuisine and remain an Englishman? And support Greece leaving the EU and still be an Englishman? And support Greece staying in the EU and still be an Englishman? Presumably those are all positions an Englishman can hold? Well, then, why isn't an Englishman permitted to be a "Zionist", if Zionism means commitment to the existence of a state of Israel? Why can an Englishman hold other political positions, but not that one?

Unless by "Zionist" you do not mean "supporter of the existence of the state of Israel" but instead "jewish supporter of the existence of the state of Israel" in which case I put it to you that you are an anti-semite, because what you oppose isn't the political philosophy, but jews holding it

People are taking offence because the way you are speaking or misspeaking is offensive, not necessarily because we wish to make each and every anti-Zionist out to be an anti-Semite. If you want to come off as a principled and reasonable anti-Zionist (and there probably are a handful in the world) your principles and understanding of the situation should be clear, and you can't seem to "have it in for" this Jewish homeland in particular, for standards you do not apply to any other homeland. If you do seem to, you will look like an anti-Semite using anti-Zionism as a smokescreen. That should be obvious.

19 November 2012 at 03:22  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Anyway: scream at me,shout at me,condemn me Cressida.
What?

Dear oh dear. Cressida does not wear black leather or use whips...weirdo! Wrong blog site.
Seek help.


19 November 2012 at 03:35  
Blogger OldJim said...

dodo

The comment you quoted

"The international community and the media must begin to differentiate between war crimes committed by terrorists and legitimate acts of self-defense engaged in by a responsible military.

Failing to emphasize that distinction encourages terrorism and erodes the moral basis of the important principle of just warfare.
"

It depends what it means and I'm afraid I suspect the author of making a deliberate elision. If Palestine is not recognised as a State, then any and all military steps taken by Palestinians are by definition terrorist. Any military steps taken by Israel are open to justification as the military action of a State.

I'm not trying to create a false equivalence here. I think that the violence is more often that of Palestine against Israel, and that Israel is a recognised State, a democracy open to diplomacy with Palestine and that has Arab citizens within its borders. Sure, it has a couple of fruitloops seeking a one state solution and stronghanding Palestinians, but Palestine has many more fruitloops totally opposed to Israel's very existence.

Nonetheless, the problem of Palestinian statehood is the very one being addressed, and so I think criticising Palestinian military action for being terrorist activity because Palestine is not a state is not helpful in the same way as say, criticising Palestine for deliberately targeting Israeli civilians would be.

With the former, Israel could be walking all over Palestine and Palestine would remain the "terrorists". It's definitionally true, but may be manifestly uneven treatment if we are agreed that the Palestinian people have some sort of claim to self governance and safety and rights within their own borders. Rather, I think the latter line of argumentation is the one that produces light rather than heat.

19 November 2012 at 03:49  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Why do you think I posted St Peter and the first 5 or 6 popes were Jewish Christians??????

Scroll back.

19 November 2012 at 04:02  
Blogger OldJim said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 November 2012 at 04:03  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Either you are joking, taking an unfounded swipe, or have never visited Rome and the Vatican but I can assure you the last time I visited St. Peter's Basilica it was immaculate. I hope you can conceive this fact. Or is it beyond your conception?

19 November 2012 at 04:08  
Blogger OldJim said...

Darter Noster

Like it or not, these blog threads tend to be primarily religious or theo-political in tone.

Sure, BitB's positions are a bit rich for my tastes, but no-one's adopting his views to my knowledge, and he doesn't present his views as those of any particular group. we also have no theological or philosophical worldview in common with him which would mean we could assume a common set of assumptions from which to argue in order to change his mind.

Now, if John Magee were to present his views on the State of Israel as pertaining to his Catholic theology, which he has a little from time to time by objecting to the self-designation "chosen people" as racist and denying the universality of God's Love, then Dodo and I would and have taken great pains first to try to correct him or render his views orthodox, and second, to make sure that the other users of the blog understand that the position is not one entailed by Catholicism.

In the first instance, BitB's views are unfortunate, but we are unlikely to change them and the people here are unlikely to be convinced by him.

In the latter case, we and John Magee have a common set of theological assumptions from which to reason, and it is possible given his known theological beliefs that people might imagine that his positions are implicit in or necessitated by or amenable to Catholicism. There is then an obvious and pressing need to counter that impression not merely for the sake of the person addressed but perhaps even more so that non-Catholics will not be scandalised by misunderstanding the Catholic position.

And so whilst BitB's views can be pretty bad, John Magee as a Catholic saying anything similar would be worse, and John Magee saying that he felt that way because he was a Catholic would be worse still.

Surely that makes sense to you?

Now, if you can see that, you can perhaps see why more effort might be expended either correcting you or ensuring that the way you spoke was sufficiently closed to misunderstanding, and why this might be a higher priority than refuting BitB's position. It's not merely the content of the views that determine their importance, but their ability to be refuted (we share common theological assumptions) and the effect they are likely to have on interfaith relations on this site.

And I don't think that the cussing is helpful, nor do I think that it is likely to be conducive to a good public image.

In charity,
James

19 November 2012 at 04:22  
Blogger John Magee said...

Old Jim


Where did I mention Britain in any of my posts? I didn't.

What you read was a quote I posted by Blofeld which was a comment he made on one of my posts about Zionism.

My record here has always been supportive of the UK. I am, however, often critical of my own country and other countries too as well as my own Catholic faith and other religions if I see hypocrisy.

As a Catholic I praised Julia Gasper's quote in another of Cranmer's articles which she posted from the Egyptian Book of the Dead as a code of moral values almost 6,000 years old being worthy of anything Jews and Christians teach from the Torah and the Gospels.

The first blacks who came to Britain in any great numbers, so far as I know, came after WW II from Jamaica because of the labor shortage caused by the loss of so many men during the War. Correct me if I am wrong. However, there have always been tiny communities of non whites in London since the time of Elizabeth I. Most were servants brought by explorers who created your Empire.

19 November 2012 at 04:25  
Blogger OldJim said...

Darter Noster
So our responses on this blog are determined by a number of things

a) the effect that their being stated by members of our faith is likely to have on people who are not Catholic's views of our faith. The way that this blog is structured makes it a pressing need for us to be good ambassadors of our respective understandings of Christianity.

b)the amount we share in common with people who hold beliefs we find unacceptable, and, in a related way, how much we know about the subject.

If these threads aren't to devolve into swapping insults, a process I for one would not wish to aid, these sorts of conditions for good and sturdy debate are necessary, and will influence how much time we spend refuting any particular position, regardless of how strongly we feel.

I strongly believe in Israel's right to exist, but I am no expert on Israeli-Palestinian relations. I know a lot more about confession, and I also strongly believe in doctrinal orthodoxy there. That I might pay more attention to the latter is due to the amount I know more about it and the fact that I know where we agree already and so how to structure a fruitful debate with you, rather than meaninglessly slagging you off. It does not necessarily mean that I'm indifferent to antisemitism, nor that I'm picking on you.

Last, there might be a legitimate diversity of opinion on a subject, but if we disagree with someone who uses our faith to defend their position, particularly if it is a position that is unpopular with other members of the blog, we are within our rights to try to change their mind, first because we share more common assumptions and second so that other members of the blog can see that it is a diversity of opinion and not a position necessitated by the religion.

I know that you have not always been met with reasoned critiques, but I cannot help that. What I can help is to defend why we might spend more time on your views than those of BitB, and far from being bad form I think that the reasons we might do that are ones that are conducive to productive debate.

John Magee
I was referring to your original post, where you seemed to equate Zionism to Communism and Nazism by virtue of their lack of ethnic diversity. I do not agree and was pointing out that at the time of the war, Britain too was not terribly ethnically diverse and yet clearly was not the equivalent of the Nazis. I think the Nazis were wrong for much worse reasons than that their countries were not sufficiently ethnically diverse, and that is why I defended Israel of the charge. I did not mean to imply that you thought badly of Britain, it was precisely because I imagined you though well of us that I used the comparison between Britain and Israel to try to change your mind on Israel or at least help you see that if you objected to Israel it was for a different reason.

I hope you don't feel singled out, it is important to discuss these things with charity and I have used you as an example in my reply to Darter Noster not out of a desire to single you out, but as a relevant example in the discussion we are having.

Peace be with you,
James

19 November 2012 at 04:55  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 November 2012 at 05:14  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

A common set of assumtions we share could be that the rights of an Englishman as Established by King Charles I became the Rights of Man as Established in America

Therefore my desire for a politics stripped of agendas and based upon those general freedoms would create a healthier society than we have today

When British Zionist do something that is not in Britains interests, then it is anti-British not pro-Zionist and one must come before the other

So I would presume Zionism belongs in the State of Israel and pro-British views belong at home and have previously mentioned British Jews who said the same

Today we are being stripped of those freedoms by agendas, I fail to see the nasty language, what I see is an attempt to control what I am allowed to say by Julia Gasper

19 November 2012 at 06:09  
Blogger John Magee said...

@Bred

I always enjoy reading your posts.

19 November 2012 at 07:29  
Blogger OldJim said...

Bred

So sure, Israeli citizens and their government can be Zionists, but the British Government should not be expending energy on defending Israel when it is directly to the detriment of British interests.

I'm not sure I agree, because the question then becomes: what happens to the Jews without Israel? It seems to me that Israel needs support within a very hostile region, and that when the Jewish people do not have a homeland in which to feel safe, the nation they are living in always gets into tough times and the ugly question of "Die Judenfrage" always pops up. Nonetheless, nothing especially controversial abut your position so stated, it seems to be well within the mainstream.

The question then is, what if a pro-Israel policy is neither in British interests nor against them? Is that just a matter of choice?

The other point is of course what constitutes "British Interests"? I think that the Middle East is a very turbulent and difficult area, and Israel is our only reliable ally within the region and the only one with which we have much purchase.

Because of this, I would tend to support most pro-Israel policies because a policy would have to damage British interests very strongly in order to counterbalance how much good Israel does us in stabilising and providing access to the region. Don't know how you'd feel there.

19 November 2012 at 07:45  
Blogger bluedog said...

BitB @ 21.24 says, 'Bluedog the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty was Jewish inspired and would contradict your views about the US policy on immigration.'

Whereas:

'Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.'

Doesn't seem overtly Jewish let alone Zionist.

Are you advancing a theory that the Liberty Torch is a menorah in cunning disguise?

19 November 2012 at 08:02  
Blogger OldJim said...

Emma Lazarus, who wrote "The New Colossus" was indeed a Jew.

Credit where it's due. Actually very good poetry.

19 November 2012 at 08:14  
Blogger Naomi King said...


Dear Friends

I am reminded of Zechariah 12 1 : 9 -

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God. In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications.

19 November 2012 at 08:17  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Blofeld

Why do you think I posted St Peter and the first 5 or 6 popes were Jewish Christians??????

Scroll back.

(St Peter was NOT the Bishop of Rome, it is myth and legend!!as I have shown on previous thread..ask old jim for directions!!and there was therefore NO Apostolic Succession as they POPES) are NOT APOSTLES!!QED.

Blofeld, Indeed I am he.

Either you are joking (maybe), taking an unfounded swipe (possibly), or have never visited Rome and the Vatican (never had the pleasure) but I can assure you the last time I visited St. Peter's Basilica it was immaculate (Is that like the conception and assumption then). I hope you can conceive this fact. Or is it beyond your conception?(Would that be Immaculate?)*chuckles*

E S Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 09:05  
Blogger bluedog said...

Old Jim @ 08.14, and if Emma Lazarus was a Jew, so what?

BitB's inference seemed to be that the Statue of Liberty inscription specifically urged the US to accept exclusively Jewish asylum seekers.

Can't see it.

19 November 2012 at 11:06  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

It appears some roman catholic bloggers slag off Israel for being 'selective' regarding the types they let into the land.

We only have to see that the fine multicultural chap Qatada (mushy peas be upon him) has stated that he intends to sue the British for 10 million squid for wrongful imprisonment, to understand such fussiness of who you let in by Israel.

Never mind, perhaps if we give him the dosh immediately rather than resort to lengthy, costly legal action, he could kick start the economy for we infidels by investing in very large amounts of hydrogen peroxide, flour, manure and ball bearing, all for peaceful purposes obviously.

Ernst takes it he believes he would have earned at least 10 million squid-diddly from some source of useful employment but as he has only been on benefits since arriving in Blighty it will be interesting to see how he would have achieved these wages..a SPAM (Special Parliamentary Adviser for Muslims)to Baroness Warsi, perhaps?*Porky Chuckles*

He has put diddlysquat into our country since illegally arriving here from what Ernst can see.

It appears he states his human rights have been denied him, as most essentially, it is a "human right" (for Muslims only) to have the opportunity to remove the "human rights" from everyone else.

Referendum immediately, if you please, Mr Cameron!

E S Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 11:26  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

I followed the string of tweets by BBC 'reporter' Jon Donnison including the one where he posted or re-tweeted from another journo the picture of an injured Gazan child on a hospital trolley only for someone to point out that the picture had already been used weeks earlier as being an injured child in Syria. The BBC is already in the spotlight for sloppy reporting, yet this seems not to have filtered down to the buggers that edit the 'news'. The way they keep on about children and an obsession with death toll score they are happy to plug in order to portray Israel as pure evil is astounding but not surprising.
No one has questioned or filmed in Israel to the extent they have done in Gaza or asked how it is possible to pay for and stockpile unlimited weapons stocks, while saying they are short of supplies because of the Israeli blockade.

We had a two State solution in 1947 - Israel agreed - and was attacked on five fronts.

The 'Palestine Cause' is one great confidence trick that could be sorted out by calling the fuckin place Egypt and having done with it.

Angry at having my intelligence insulted by Bowen Donnison Brown et al? - double bloody right I am.

19 November 2012 at 15:11  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Bluedog you are incorrect as to my inference, it was you who said the US would not accept specifically Jewish immigrants

I conclude that policy would be in order to force them to Palastine so as to create Israel

19 November 2012 at 16:03  
Blogger John Magee said...

OldJim

Yes, Emma Lazarus's poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty is beautiful and inspiring. However, it was written during a different era when the USA needed to fill up a vast country and needed labor. Those people she wrote about came here through nearby Ellis Island by the millions after 1870 from non English speaking Europe with the desire to have work hard and have their children assimilate even if they probably could not. Their children did assimilate and the rest is history and a wonderful success story. Her poem does NOT in any way reflect the USA's immigration law today or back then when she wrote her poem. In the late 1800's as many as 10% who arrived at Ellis Island and other ports from Europe were turned back usually due to health issues.From 1892 -1922 over 12 million people from Europe came through nearby Ellis Island to live in the USA.

The millions who cross over the USA's southern border today do so knowing they will get free handouts, hate the country they chose to live in illegally and have absolutely no knowledge of it's history or why it exists. They demand the majority culture change to fit their cultural needs. Cinco de Mayo, Mexican Independence day from Spain is celebrated as an unofficial holiday in the USA every May 5th. The USA will change into a country unregonizable within a generation and may become officially bilingual with Hispanic secessionist groups doing their best to "reclaim" the SW USA and Texas which in fact were bought from Mexico after the Mexcian American War 1846 -1848. The recent secessionist petitions by conservative groups after Obama win are only a symbol of the anger here by the
"Anglos" (which means any English speaking person of any ethnic group or race). The large new Hispanic population decided the last election for Obama.

One Hispanic secessionist group called "La Raza" (The Race) atcually brags about how Hispanic illegals are taking over our cities and even small towns and worse they constantly tell their rallies how they will someday be able to have all the vast land the USA bought from Mexico in 1848 returned to Mexico and expell the "Anglos". This blatantly racist organization group atcually gets tax dollars from the USA government.

For some strange reason the liberal media delights in reminding Americans that Hispanics will be the majority in large pasrts of the USA and won't everything be wonderful when this happens? It's sort of like Europeans being reminded by their media their demographics point to that "wonderful" time within 50 years when Muslims will be the majority in all large European cities.

By the way. The Statue of Liberty was a gift from the people of France (a Roman Catholic Country) and constructed in sections in France and brought here and reconstructed to commemorate the 100th anniverary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. France was the young American Republic's main ally and gave us enourmous sums of money and military aid. So much so that France went bankrupt which laid the foundations for the French Revolution.

On July 30, 1916, during World War I, German saboteurs set off a disastrous explosion on the Black Tom peninsula in Jersey City, New Jersey, in what is now part of Liberty State Park, close to Bedloe's Island. Carloads of dynamite and other explosives that were being sent to Britain and France for their war efforts were detonated, and seven people were killed. The statue sustained minor damage, mostly to the torch-bearing right arm, and was closed for ten days. The cost to repair the statue and buildings on the island was about $100,000. The narrow ascent to the torch was closed for public safety reasons, and it has remained closed ever since. That enormous explosion was heard almost 100 miles away.

19 November 2012 at 16:16  
Blogger John Magee said...

Blofeld

Read my post above. The Statue of Liberty (The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World; French: La Liberté éclairant le monde) was given by Catholic France, the USA's European Ally during the Revolution starting in 1776, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of our Revolution.

19 November 2012 at 16:20  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

OldJim

When I make reference to British interests, I mean British interests at home, it is in our interests to have a politics free from zionist/marxist ideology because neither are suited to our own needs

John Magee

It is nice to have a level headed debater such as you onside, as there are some communicants easily get their knickers in a twist

19 November 2012 at 16:24  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

"Israel is the canary in the coalmine"

That was an incensitive comment, comparing Jews to a caged bird about to be gassed, yet I get all the flack!

19 November 2012 at 17:07  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Your Grace,

This military action is tragic,but necessary. I hope that the terrorists come to their senses and stop terrorising Israelis and come to the peace table.

One can but pray for miracles...

19 November 2012 at 17:18  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 November 2012 at 17:30  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Bone - you create your own flack by never offering any proof to substantiate your argument, nor do you contest points raised by others with anything resembling reasoned counter-points.

Look at this little lot for instance from just this one thread-
So what is the agenda, other than encouraging general chaos and havoc in all lands - All lands? such as? ... 'general chaos and havoc' as opposed to specific chaos and havoc I assume - give me an example... you pose a question and provide your own answer but give no reason or example to follow or discuss, your post barely makes any sense at all.
this -
Therefore my desire for a politics stripped of agendas and based upon those general freedoms would create a healthier society than we have today... What has this got to do with Jews or Zionists? what is a healthier society - how would you measure such a concept?
Politics without agendas?... such as? - name a country or political body where this prevails or how it works?
or
When British Zionist do something that is not in Britains interests
Such as whom? - give me a name or names and an example of what they did that you can prove, are/were not in Britain's interests? I should push you to define what you understand by describing 'British interests' but I don't really want to know unless you can be specific.

Venting antisemitic and anti-Zionism diatribes, although within your rights to do so, does not make a reasonable basis for an entertaining exchange of dialogue or ideas and for me at least, is quite frankly a complete turn off .

19 November 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger bluedog said...

BitB @ 16.03, what I said was, 'Patently untrue given that the USA opposed immigration to the US of European Jews during the 1930s and '40s'. There was a quota of about 20,000 pa.

You say, 'I conclude that policy would be in order to force them to Palastine so as to create Israel'.

I say, that is a revisionist fantasy that bears no relation to US attitudes and policies at the time. Do some homework.

19 November 2012 at 18:54  
Blogger John Magee said...

Lord Lavendon

"terrorists come to their senses"

It can't happen.

That's why they're called terrorists.

19 November 2012 at 19:05  
Blogger John Magee said...


"Canary in the coal mine" refers to the time when miners atcually carried a canary or other small bird in a cage every time they went deep down into the coal mines as a warning to protect them from lethal gasses and fumes. If the canary suddenly died RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

19 November 2012 at 19:12  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Johnny murderous Islam gets a bloody nose instead of us this time. Damn good news, what !

19 November 2012 at 19:37  
Blogger Berserker said...

Money?

Has anyone mentioned that Palestinians would starve without Israeli or American help. Not to mention the EU financial help to Palestinians, building schools etc.
Look what happened in Gaza when Israel handed it over. Poverty and yet ore poverty. As I've said time and time again the Arabs don't care about the Palestinians.

Of course Egypt are in the same boat, taking money from the West and never saying thank you!

19 November 2012 at 20:56  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Bluedog, I have just done some homework, I opened my window, looked outside, saw my Country was a shit pit caused by a Parlaiment full of Friends of Israel

Oh, then I considered putting my hammer through the skull of the fat ugly Jewboy who helped abuse my wife

Nothing revisionist about that, as I wrote to fat ugly Ken Clarke over the matter, just before Cameron suddeenly shuffled him out of office

I am still waiting for a peaceable settlement but you know how it is, in a Country where jews can do no wrong

19 November 2012 at 21:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Besreker. The different races have different priorities. Some put all their wealth into weapons.

bone. You are hurting. Your most recent post is only going to fuel your detractors. Out with it man, the truth behind hour convictions...


19 November 2012 at 21:39  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dreadnaught most reasonably explained..

"Venting antisemitic and anti-Zionism diatribes, although within your rights to do so, does not make a reasonable basis for an entertaining exchange of dialogue or ideas and for me at least, is quite frankly a complete turn off ."

BITB responded to this request @19 November 2012 21:03.

There's a lot of bad blood there young man! This should be more to your liking and possibly cure this tragic lifelong habit or inherited characteristics (possibly from your father?), dis-ease. http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/science/getting-rid-of-bad-blood.

Not a Jew insight at the UAE...every sand dune etc etc.

"Teroohy w terga'y bil salama, Nt Tjlny Mjnwn " as they say in that part of the world.

Osse radicatum raro de carne recedit *Sigh*

Blofeld, over and out!

19 November 2012 at 21:43  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

No Blowfeld I have not got a lifelong habit, so it makes little sence

Inspector I am not hurting, I am refuring to the systematic abuse of women being covered up

Along with the rest of the shit this filthy scum attempt to sweep under the carpet

I am quite a patient man, in truth

19 November 2012 at 22:05  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

bone. One wishes you well in your quest for justice...

19 November 2012 at 22:24  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Old Jim
Thank you for this series of posts and especially for suggesting how a Catholic ought to conduct him/herself on a blog.

If only ... if only ... I could!

19 November 2012 at 22:27  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"No Blowfeld I have not got a lifelong habit, so it makes little sence" but you have not denied you may have inherited characteristics you display in comments (possibly from your father?). The blaggard!

"Along with the rest of the shit this filthy scum attempt to sweep under the carpet" Is everybody a Jew where you live and you and your wife are the only indo-aryans in the hood? Is that Ramallah or Rochdale. Is there no ADL up north?

Dear boy, by your commenting here, you continually wiss in our ears and tell us it’s raining outside.

Must be a popular pastime up in your parts. Carry on Wissing, it's as dry as a bone down here!

Blofeld

19 November 2012 at 22:41  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

20 November 2012 at 05:11  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

20 November 2012 at 05:13  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Or maybe I am just full of bullshit as Darter Nostar would say

What is the bullshit like in your parts Blowfeld, another popular pastime :-D

20 November 2012 at 05:51  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

In hindsight you are correct Blowfeld, this blog is better left to the incurable, who defend that which ails them

20 November 2012 at 06:15  
Blogger len said...

Just listened to the leader of' Hamas'speaking on 'sky news'.

He seems to think' Hamas' should be allowed to fire rockets into Israel and Israel should not retaliate.

How can anyone have' peace talks 'with an organisation with this sort of mindset?.

20 November 2012 at 08:29  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Blowers: Noted; there is one word left off the end of his tag - 'HEAD'.

They (the usual suspects) accuse Israel of disproportionality which seems a bit suspect when considering they could be using nuclear tipped weapons or missiles.
The Hamas Charter regards all of the Israeli land as 'occupied' land not just the West Bank, which Israel lost to Jordan in 1948 and regained it when Jordan failed in the war of 1967. The Charter endorses the long term commitment to destroy the State of Israel completely - presumably to clear the ground to scrap it out with Fatah. The people of the areas will have violence foisted upon them no matter what.
They (Hamas) claim to be prepared for a truce - Israel asked for a guarantee of 15 years without more rocket attacks: Hamas don't want to do that, they just want enough of a break to re-stock the hardware.

20 November 2012 at 10:16  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

" What is the bullshit like in your parts Blowfeld, another popular pastime...As rare as an indo-arayan worshiping in a synagogue!"

"..who defend that which ails them" ....indeed boy Ernst does, hear me lad...ALL HAIL THE ALE. oops, me eyesight.

Always a joy to see you wissing in your wassailing bowl.

MISTER Blowfeld to you, young indo-arayan ;-P

20 November 2012 at 10:21  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dreadnaught

"Blowers: Noted; there is one word left off the end of his tag - 'HEAD'." Ernst believes the correct medical 'prognostication' for the fellow would be, 'The lad has issues'

Blowers out (As Ernst's better known relative Uncle Henry would say)

ps

The cricket is looking most dire for us. As we have found with our politics, we (english) and spin do not get on!! *gloom-ridden shrug*

20 November 2012 at 10:29  
Blogger Elwin Daniels said...

>>>>'Israel pounds Gaza..'? (You may have heard that before..) Funny, isn't it, how the BBC has never mentioned Gaza pounding Israel, which it does incessantly.<<<

Spot on. Yes, I had noticed that.

20 November 2012 at 10:35  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Len said

"How can anyone have' peace talks 'with an organisation with this sort of mindset?."
A perfect example of the most bizarre genuine oxymoron..A signed peace accord with those who have sworn a blood oath to annihilate you completely!!!

Other classics.. free trade (EU Beast), peacekeeper missile (Drones), unbiased opinion (OOIG), butt head (BITB ;))sweet sorrow(Dater Noster), silent scream (Tingey), alone together (Dodo and Chums ;-)), good grief (Atlas Shrugged), living dead (British Parliamentarians),criminal justice (Appeals Court) and peace force (UN corps), definite maybe (Cressida de Borgia) and Ernst's current favourite.. Microsoft Works (Does it hell!!)

Blofeld out!

20 November 2012 at 10:48  
Blogger William said...

Ernsty

*huge guffaws*, *chortles* and *sniggers*.

By the way, the writing is on the wall for Microsoft. Time to go open source - as recommended by the minions of evil geniuses working away in their dead volcano hideouts.

20 November 2012 at 11:37  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Scarlet de Borgia to you...if you please! And I'm not giving you any more free French hair cuts !

20 November 2012 at 11:49  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

For Blofeel 10:48

20 November 2012 at 11:52  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Cressida

" Scarlet de Borgia to you...if you please! And I'm not giving you any more free French hair cuts !"
Blast, Ernst does enjoy having a good french crop. Ooh err Missus!

Blowers

20 November 2012 at 12:26  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

William said...

"Time to go open source - as recommended by the minions of evil geniuses working away in their dead volcano hideouts." INDEEDY!

Ernsty Blowers

20 November 2012 at 12:29  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

William said...

ps

Ernst can then go back to the good ole days when Governments around the world would receive a green block lettered pronouncement from yours truly, that for a mere 100 billion trillion gazillion to point the operational craters armed weapon elsewhere? Should be enough to pay part of me upcoming mansion tax...MawhaHAHAHAHAHA!

Ernsty

20 November 2012 at 12:46  
Blogger Tommy said...

Dreadnaught said this - The West HAS to back Israel, if only to preserve its own future viability - Israel is the canary in the coal mine - but who is listening?

Your a clever chappy mate, sound as a pound analogy, once Israel goes down the gates of Vienna are next, hamas and hezbollah hate us almost as much as they hate Israel but they need our useful idiots in their propoganda war for now. Once Israel is destroyed they will move onto us then all these trendy leftys will find their theatres, bars, strip joints, homosexual activities, non married sexual exploits, cinemas, music stations etc etc closed down and outlawed. Will be too late to do anything then.

20 November 2012 at 14:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

20 November 2012 at 15:22  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

'...once Israel goes down the gates of Vienna are next'

I doubt it will be Vienna, but Muslim Brotherhood have already staked their claim to the restoration their 15thC presence in Cordoba and the furtherance of the Islamic code in Andalucia/Spain. In the meanwhile the adavance guard of muslim migrants are already well established exploiting benefits and distorting the demographics and birth rate statistics.

As for the Gazans, poverty and persecution hasn't slowed them in expanding in number to 1.5 million now nearly all of them have never set foot in their disputed
'homeland' except for medical treatment or work.

20 November 2012 at 15:31  
Blogger John Magee said...

@ Tommy

As we say here "wake up and smell the coffee".

Islam has been invading Europe through massive immigration for the past forty years. Instead of standing up to this clever immigrant invasion by Islamic Jihad (the ultimate dream of the Muslim Brotherhood when it was founded in Egypt in 1928) as our ancestors actually fought Jihad in Europe since the Battle of Tours, France in 732 AD the West welcomes them today with open arms in the name of "diversity".

Islam has no intension to assimilate their believers in the pagan moon god of Medina into our culture.They come to here to dominate. You and me and everyone here can thank our governments for this stealth invasion through migration into Europe (and to a lesser extent into the USA, Canada, and Australia) by armies of Muslim immigrants who we welcome with welfare benefits and special privilidges as "minorities". Our grandchildren who will grow up as unwelcome strangers in their indigenous homelands will hate us.

If you want to know what militant Islam really thinks here is a good example. Tunisian President Houari Boumédienne (real name Mohammed Ben Brahim Boukharoubais) said this as part of anti European and Israeli speech (rant) before the UN General Assembly in 1974:

"One day, millions of Muslim men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory." -- Boumédienne, in a 1974 speech to the UN

A few years ago Kurdish-Norwegian cleric Mullah Krekar braged that by 2030, 30 percent of Europe will be Muslim, a fact that every Muslim in Europe seems keenly aware of. "We're the ones that will change you," Krekar said.

This was said in Norway a few years ago, a country which in 1970 and only a few hundred Muslims.

Later when asked by a reporter how he felt about Italian Islamic critic of Islamic migration Oriana Fallaci (who while she was alive never minced her words about Islam)who had recently told a rally in Italy "Muslims breed like rats". "Norwegian" Muslim holy man Krekar gleefully told an Oslo paper reporter, "The number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes."


20 November 2012 at 16:45  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Just heard six supposed collaborators were taken out into the street and summarily executed by means of 'lead in the head', courtesy of those nice Palestinians Chaps Hamas/Militant Jihad. Will we hear a peep about this from Amnesty Int or UN. Thought it was a crime to execute without trial in western minds? Of course not if you are a backward arab nation..It's a 'Get out of Human Rights Trial card, is it not!!.

Don't it make ya proud to know we speak of them in the same breath as Israeli's and actually treat them as human beings.

No blustering condemnation from BBC but imagine it was the IDF taking Palestinian sympathisers from among the Israeli's into the streets of Tel Aviv and POPPING A FEW INTO THEIR NOGGIN. Scandalous Outrageous Barbarity, right?

One rule for one and one for another. What a joke...Never heard a peep from the mp's, especially labour or lib dem about these atrocities during the middle east debate in HOC. Hypocrites!!

Blofeld

20 November 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Those who think it is all over if Israel fall, could do with having to get off their own arse and fight for something, blah, blah {insert scripture here} blah, blah

20 November 2012 at 18:18  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

You know when muslim immigration has exceeded safe limits when you’re walking along a street in your home town and you’re suddenly killed by a car bomb, or catching the tube, or riding a bus....

what !

20 November 2012 at 19:08  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Ernsty gasped ...

"Don't it make ya proud to know we speak of them (Palestinians Chaps Hamas/Militant Jihad) in the same breath as Israeli's and actually treat them as human beings."

Well yes, actually. That way we can hold them to account and expect better from them.

20 November 2012 at 20:06  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The usual SUCK UP suspects will be collecting their pensions dodging Jihadi sniper rounds

Whilst Marxist Jew Milipedes tell them not to offend Mohammed, blah, blah

20 November 2012 at 22:34  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

The 'we' stated by Ernst is irony that 'we' is the biased media over here, that turns a blind eye to the differences between what is displayed by one side against the other hence the comparison.

If it is not mentioned or investigated as a specific crime against their own and humanity, who will do the holding to bring them to account..The people executed could have been persecuted Christians executed to get extract revenge rather than real collaborators for all we know. Their rotting bodies will disappear into the jihadi mists of that dire place called Gaza!

Is your 'holding them to account' the refusal of all RC's buying a Chicken Tikka Masala this Friday?

Keep expecting!

Ernst

20 November 2012 at 23:44  
Blogger bluedog said...

BitB @ 18.18 says 'Those who think it is all over if Israel fall, could do with having to get off their own arse and fight for something.'

If you were slightly more perceptive, you would recognise that the situation facing Israel is a forerunner of the predicament of London, Paris, Rome, Rochdale and any other Western city with a large or majority Muslim population.

Israel's dilemma is that their excellent military is politically neutralised by Hamas, given the craven attitudes of Obameron. Of course the Israeli nuclear deterrent is completely useless in these circumstances.

So sharpen the broom-stick and prepare to defend Mrs BitB from abuse or worse at the hands of muslim-boys. The fight may be on your front doorstep sooner than you think.

21 November 2012 at 07:03  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

It would seem that I perceptive enough to know we face the same shit as Israel because of the zionism in our politics

Suck Up

21 November 2012 at 17:21  
Blogger London hussy said...

Bred in the Bone says:

"The only democracy you get in Israel is a choice between left leaning Zionists or right leaning Zionists"

which is as accurate as saying "the only democracy you get in Britain is a choice between left leaning people who believe that Britain is a country and right leaning people who believe that Britain is a country"

21 November 2012 at 18:25  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

There was an article in the daily mail yesterday which showed how the Hamas justice system works- suspects are declared guilty (without any due process or trial), strapped to back of motorbikes and dragged across the roads until dead. How civil. And how anyone can support that, over Israel is beyond me.

21 November 2012 at 18:39  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

England is a Country hussy

Do you consent to the English constitution

21 November 2012 at 21:10  
Blogger Mr. Mcgranor said...

I do not support the commie line in support of the Palistinians. I see their defense and justification elsewhere... As a needed antogonism, so the Israelis don't get a total red carpet treatment. I support a sovereign and autonomus nation-state -- including Israel. Although i do not have a positive religious regard towards the State of Israel. Because i am no Judaizer; and i will not subjegate my faith to their noahide regulation. Neither do i find them to be a needed component within a Christian dispensationalist perspective. I am an advocate of New Covenant theology. A fulfilled Jew; not a Messianic Jew is of Christian importance. Of course secular and/or religious Jews are not of any matter. I find the antagonism by the Arabs (of which --as you might know there are Christians in an Eastern/Oriental Orthodox manner among them) to be never-do-well. But that is within the spirit of both Jew and Mohammedan.

22 November 2012 at 14:29  
Blogger JohnPD said...

This is a most entertaining & instructive blog.I owe thanks to too many here to name.

A few thoughts.Yes Israel has a perfect right to self defense & existence. Unfortunately it has had to become a racist state to cope with the large & hostile minority within.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most-hated-man-in=israel-or-just-the-most-heroic?-2087909.html
Independent online Mon 26 Nov 2012.

Looks like the muslims are on the march in Europe via their womens'wombs. I had thought that HMG was complicit in this due to the need for births to pay our unfunded pensions problem, but there is obviously a muslim side to this agenda.
www.terrysmithblog.com 13 Nov 2012.

There is another agenda working here also, Bred in the Bone.
It is UN Agenda 21, which purposes 80% reduction in human population to save our planet for "sustainable development", among many other policies.
www.youtube.com 1)What is Agenda 21? 2)Forced Population Reduction Has Begun.

We live in interesting times.:)

JD

26 November 2012 at 10:02  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older