Friday, August 17, 2012

Pussy Riot sentenced to 2 years for 'hooliganism motivated by religious hatred'


His Grace posted a few weeks ago about the appalling treatment of the Russian feminist punk rock band Pussy Riot, who performed an innovative (but heretical) liturgy to the Theotokos on the altar of the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow. It wasn't to everyone's taste; akin somewhat to the sort of gaily-coloured 'worship' now common in many Western churches of all denominations. And the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia - who happens also to be Putin's best mate and former KGB colleague - Kirill I found it ‘blasphemous’.

So, unsurprisingly, Pussy Riot have been convicted of 'hooliganism motivated by religious hatred', and sentenced to two years in prison ('lenient' because they have small children). There were very loud chants of 'Freedom to Political Prisoners' outside the Court building, but to no avail. For this is Putin's Russia and Putin's Church (he converted 20 years ago, and is reportedly devout).

While iconic Russian statues were sympathetically bedecked with Pussy Riot's trademark balaclava helmets, the Court determined: 'The Pussy Riot singers colluded under unestablished circumstances, for the purpose of offensively violating public peace in a sign of flagrant disrespect for citizens. The women were motivated by religious enmity and hatred, and acted provocatively and in an insulting manner inside a religious building in the presence of a large number of believers.'

The girls' lengthy closing statements of self-justification may be read HERE. They do not deny defiling the sacred space, but their motives, they insist, were honourable. They have apologised for any offence caused to believers, and repudiate allegations of 'religious hatred'.

For His Grace, the only 'hooliganism' they expressed was in their chosen genre of music: indeed, Jesus was rather more of a hooligan when he overturned the tables in the Temple. He was concerned with material corruption of the sacred; they with political corruption of their country. As His Grace has written, Pussy Riot are guilty of the postmodern equivalent of nailing their 95 Theses firmly to the door of the Cathedral; they have not burned a copy of the Qur'an; the Orthodox inconostasis is not equivalent to the Roman Catholic real presence.

In summing up the prosecution case, Judge Marina Syrova confirmed the tangential theological argument that prayers in a Russian cathedral may only be offered by a priest and not by 'ordinary members of the public', so Pussy Riot's professed protest-as-prayer was contrary to church rules. But this is simply not true: Orthodoxy permits laity to lead public prayer. Perhaps it would not bestow the honour upon rabid feminists, but there is no canonical prohibition. The Judge observed: "It was a small act but maybe not a very elegant act but they consider that it is the country which is sick. For them, individuals are not important, they consider that education in Russia is still in the Soviet mould. And that there is still cruelty in the country and that prison is a miniature of Russia itself."

If education is no longer in the Soviet mould, justice certainly appears to be. Putin's Russia has regressed to the Soviet era: he is forging another oppressive kleptocracy which routinely persecutes the unorthodox and crushes dissent. It might even feel like theocracy. Some of the prosecution witnesses were not actually in the Cathedral at the time of the protest, but told the Court they were offended by the YouTube recording. The Judge described them all as 'good Christians', based on nothing but their 'right' testimony. Thus the actions of Pussy Riot 'degraded the moral feeling' of the victims, who are the Orthodox everywhere for all time.

This was a show-trial inquisition for the sake of all Russians, and we must thank God that Pussy Riot have brought the true nature of Putin's Russia to the attention of the world.

134 Comments:

Blogger Pubcrawler said...

YG, it was not performed 'on the altar', but before the iconostasis. On Wednesday you omitted from your good wishes members of those Orthodox churches that were celebtrating the Dormition. One wonders if Your Grace's eyes are too focused on the West and too little interested in the venerable traditions of our brethren in the East.

17 August 2012 at 15:26  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Pubcrawler,

Not at all: it is quite simply that the Orthodox Dormition does not equate to the Roman Catholic understanding of the Assumption, and the video was clearly concerned with that anniversary. Indeed, your beliefs are far more in tune with the traditional Anglican understanding on the matter.

17 August 2012 at 15:34  
Blogger Gerhard Swart said...

Interesting post His Grace. But how about changing the country, church and religion around. Let's say we have group gaining access to the house of commons and offend our new 'secular religion' by shouting profanity, let's against homosexuals. I wonder how many years they will have to pay for such blasphemy in our liberal 'democracy'. Those living in glass houses should not cast stones...

17 August 2012 at 16:33  
Blogger scottspeig said...

I have to say I don't have too much sympathy for them.

They knew what they were doing and knew the consequences, especially by annoying a rather large number of the society. Had they kept it clean and just pointed out the political concerns, I would have rather more sympathy. Yet they didn't.

17 August 2012 at 16:58  
Blogger David Lindsay said...

Perhaps these silly women with their silly name will now grow up.

17 August 2012 at 17:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...



Your Grace, not much appreciation of the sanctity of the house of God, have you. And this house of God especially - destroyed by the soviet atheist barbarians, and lovingly rebuilt by the faithful. So that these three could come in to mock it and the devoted, as they did.

It would have caused quite a stir anyway would it not if the band had performed their protesting song OUTSIDE of the walls. But no, they had to make a stronger point. They had to push it that one step further. It worked though, world attention at the cost of two years of their lives. There is always a price to pay, didn’t you realise that ?

If you can spare the time, do spare a thought for the countless Orthodox men and women martyred under the tyrants Lenin and Stalin. One hopes that as you do this, you will have the decency and good taste NOT to associate these three with those tragic brothers and sisters in Christ…





17 August 2012 at 17:29  
Blogger Shacklefree said...

Gerhart and Scottspeig have I think got the balance right.

17 August 2012 at 17:47  
Blogger Jessica Hoff said...

Just be thankful they did not perform their distasteful pantomime in a Mosque.

17 August 2012 at 17:59  
Blogger Dioscorus Boles said...

I have to say I am disappointed by His Grace's article. I just wonder if the "religious hatred" he alludes to is not his? The Russian Orthodox Church is a great Church, and this particular church is a symbol of victory of Christ over Communism. Defiling it has enraged many. And let us remember, it is not the Church that passed the prison judgement on Pussy Riot but a court of law.

17 August 2012 at 18:32  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Can't see what the heck this has to do with anyone but the Russian public.

12 months ago London, Manchester and other towns were set alight and looted by the products of our freedom loving, free-to-scrounge urban citizenry. St.Paul's precinct was under siege by part time hippies while the bankers were lining their pockets while bankrupting the nation and society. Our justice system jailed some of the looters wile the bankers were left alone. Putin got tough - while Cameron tut-tutted and chillaxed.

Putin may well be a bit of a dictator - but he's their dictator. This was as much of a publicity stunt for five minutes of fame from a 'band' that can't play, can't sing, can't dance and no one had ever heard about until now. They could have made their protest without presenting themselves as a some kind of desperate Russian Spice Girls in badly knitted balaclavas.

17 August 2012 at 19:00  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

What Gerhard Swart said. "Hate laws" are a western conceit; it's just that our "right-on Rita" middle-class never envisaged them being used to assuage "hurt and offence" caused to Christians. If I did what these three did in a mosque or a synagogue, every Polly Toynbee clone in England would be screaming "bigot" and "hater" (actually, that's assuming I survived; if I didn't, the same people would be falling over themselves making excuses for my killers).

17 August 2012 at 19:37  
Blogger Albert said...

Genuine freedom includes the right to protest. But genuine freedom does not include the right to protest just anywhere. Let's suppose that they protested against the British Government by performing their routine in the House of Commons. They'd soon be bundled away - and rightly so. How can anyone do anything if anyone can protest literally anywhere? Len and Ernst have every right to protest against Cahtolic teaching, but not in my front room. These girls have every right to protest against Putin and the Orthodox Church, but not in the building itself.

Having said that, the judgment is unbelievably and to me unjustly harsh. They should have been given a slap on the wrist and told to grow up, rather than a prison sentence (and a lot of free publicity).

17 August 2012 at 20:44  
Blogger Albert said...

Indeed, your beliefs are far more in tune with the traditional Anglican understanding on the matter.

Really? Either Anglicanism has become much more insistent on the Dormition in my absence or the Orthodox Church has become less interested in it. I have not heard of the Dormition fast being introduced in the CofE, nor of its being abolished in the East, so I'm a little puzzled.

17 August 2012 at 20:47  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

hmmm. Watched the news tonight, and saw the BBC quote the world wide ‘outrage’ of the treatment these innocent virgins by the Russians. It’s worse than one thought. Apparently liberals cannot mind their own damn business, and have to attack the Russian legal system. So what if three young women want to defile a church, what about their rights to protest, is the sickening undertone...

You liberals are all bastards, every one of you...

17 August 2012 at 20:48  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Some of this is to do with the collapse of conviction protest as an idea.

Go back to the last century and protestors not only knew they would get arrested - it was part of their protest, and a part they were willing to take on themselves as a consequence of their conviction. Many of the original feminists, the Suffragists and later the Suffragettes, would go around, throw a brick through a window (making sure not to injure anyone else) and then hand themselves into the Police.

So I have a little less patience with the arguments in the Guardian that it is outrageous they are being held accountable for their protest: it's part of the consequence of doing so.

From a Christian perspective, I would have rather they had been sternly rebuked, invited to participate in a service, and then supported in their aim by praying for justice - and praying for Putin and the others that they might rule justly.

17 August 2012 at 20:52  
Blogger Christopher said...

Your Grace,

I am disappointed at your somewhat uncritical defence of free speech. There is a time and place for legitimate protest in a free society, and this was not it. The girls' song was manifestly and obscenely anti-Christian, quite apart from its political content, and was clearly very offensive to Orthodox believers. But sadly the facts of the case, and the issues at stake, have been wilfully misunderstood and misrepresented by most of the western liberal intelligentia.

Your Grace is undeniably a supporter of the establishment of the Church of England. The Russian Orthodox Church is also, and quite properly, an established Church. Is it even slightly remarkable that the state punishes people who desecrate its sacred places? How can it be wrong for the state to uphold the established Church in this way?

Lest you suspect that this is merely or primarily a protest against the corruption evident in Putin's Russian, I advise you to consult a transcript of the full lyrics of the song, and then consider what kind of allies this obnoxious and dissolute group has: www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-femen-cross-pussy-riot/24679942.html

Putin's regime is not without many critics inside Russia. It's telling how little support they are showing at this juncture.

17 August 2012 at 20:58  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Given that this is a Country which once locked up and murdered the clergy whilst demolishing churches and forbidding christianity, Putin deserves some recognition for the excellent turnaround.

Is Putin seen as a threat to YGs beloved Israel could that be the real concern over pussy riot

The pussy riot which concerns me is the people traffiking for prostitution, lets concentrate on that matter

17 August 2012 at 21:55  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Bone, you might have something there...

17 August 2012 at 21:58  
Blogger Albert said...

Yes, Bone is saying something important. At the time the secular left was murdering clergy, did we hear much from the liberal left in the West about how terrible it was?

17 August 2012 at 22:04  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Albert, it never ceases to amaze the Inspector how shallow these liberals are. It’s as if the world began when they were born, and that somehow we are in a darling time of anything goes...

17 August 2012 at 22:37  
Blogger bluedog said...

Great Scott! This communicant just read a post @ 19.37 with which he agreed to every word.

And strike me pink, it was written by Corrigan.

17 August 2012 at 22:43  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I am with the Lads on this, if we are to turn England around, we need a school of hard knocks

Only our State is so tarnished now we need grassroots, protestation

And not the lefty collaborative type but genuine folk and faith

17 August 2012 at 22:47  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

I know, Dog - I'm scared too!

17 August 2012 at 22:48  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Just a thought chaps, but if the Inspector was managing this punk group, which he can assure you he would certainly not, he would have renamed them ‘Wild Pussy’...{AHEM}...

17 August 2012 at 22:48  
Blogger Durotrigan said...

Reaction in the Russian press has been varied, ranging from Novaya Gazeta's condemnation of the effective fusion of (a corrupt) Church and State, to Rossiyskaya Gazeta's claim that anti-Russian forces around the world are using the trial as another means of hobbling Russia's quest for greatness. One thing for certain has come out of this trial: an unimaginable amount of publicity for Pussy Riot and a platform for their views, even if these may be a little incoherent.

17 August 2012 at 22:54  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Now you see, Dog and Corrigan, they are the Lads also, all the way

They give that balance and it has to be recognised that whilst Russians are a folk struggling to find themselves again

We are a Nation who understands that struggle needs balance

17 August 2012 at 23:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Jolly good luck to Russia, that’s what this man says !


17 August 2012 at 23:08  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

You've gotta hand it to the Russians, they're not liberal, anything goes in their views!

The Russian Deputy Prime Minister recently called Madonna a 'moralising slut' after she spoke out against the Putin government. Who could disagree with this assessment?

He also told Madonna to 'take off your cross, or put on your knickers' after she vowed to back the gay community at her concert in St Petersburgh. Again, a pretty reasonable comment.

Madonna had outraged the Kremlin by calling for the release of Pussy Riot who sang an anti-Putin song. And what business is it of this miscreant?

The sentence does seem harsh. However, Russian society is falling apart under the evils of drugs, homosexuality, AIDS, corruption, the sex trade of children, abortions etc.

Faced with the anarchy of these so called 'artists' and their supporters what was the Russian establishment expected to do?

One final point, as much as I disagree with Martin Luther's actions, surely comparing his protest with the disgraceful and blasphemous behaviour of these hooligans is an insult to him?

17 August 2012 at 23:46  
Blogger John Magee said...

These blaspheming feminist scum insulted the memory of tens of millions of Orthodox Christians who were killed under lenin and Stalin from 1917-1952. I thought post USSR Russia was educating it's young people about Stalin and his butchery. hardliner that I am two years in some hell hole of a Russian jail with 300 pound lesbian guards armed with clubs is a bit harsh for these foolish young girls. I would sentence them to six months working twelve hour shifts at a hospice or cancer ward in some hospital emptying bed pans, wiping the rear ends, and cleaning the bed sores of the terminally ill or the elderly on their death beds. After their six month stint dealing with death and suffering every day let's ask them if they are still the spolied brat feminist punk rockers who thought it was cute to take their blasphemy act inside a cathedral built on the blood of martys from a time not so long ago.

The "born again Orthodox" Putin and the Patriarch of Moscow Kirill I are former slime and thugs who worked for the KGB. Of course they must have had a change of heart about religion or just saw new career opportunities after the USSR collapsed. I am not sure what job Kirill had in the KGB but I am sure he has blood on his hands just as Putin does. My guess is that Putin himself broke a few arms and legs of Soviet dissidants when he was a KGB officer. The KGB were themsleves responsible for killing millions of Russian Orthodox Christians and other believers under their former incarnations as the Communist Secret State Police in the USSR after the Russian Revolution in 1917 when they were first known as the the Cheka, later the NKVD, then the KGB.

The iconostasis in Eastern Orthodox Churches is a screen of icons of Christ, The Virgin Mary, and Saints important to the congregation with the "Holy Doors" in the center which the priest enters the church from the altar behind the iconostasis where the Devine Liturgy is said.

Orthodox Churches reek of holiness that most Western churches totally lack, with their modern and trendy and to be frank embarrasing "sort of gaily -colored 'worship' now common in many Western churches of all denominations" as HG put it.

I wonder how the C of E bishops and bishpettes would react if a group of prostitutes calling themselves "The British Pussy Cat Brigade" went to Canterbury Cathedral, stripped in front of the High Altar and cavorting half naked as an act of protest because the State Church of England still considers prostitution and adultery a sin?

Most likely the police would be called. But on second thought some trendy cleric might think they have something to attract a certain portion of the male population who never go to church and ask them to come back the next Sunday morning.

17 August 2012 at 23:56  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. If Russia adopts a hard line in the future, then it meets with approval from the Inspector. Let’s see the execution of drug dealers, putting homosexuals in their place, which may include psychiatric hospital if they are ‘fisters’ or do that thing with the straw, and punitive servitude for the corrupt. It’s the decent thing to do, sure you’ll agree...

18 August 2012 at 00:01  
Blogger Andrew Dalton said...

When I started following this story, I confess I wanted to sympathize with the band in question. No, really.

But I just can't. They knew what they were getting into. I mean, how could they not have? And the protest in question, even if the core motives had honest causes, was not only in poor taste, but was blatantly insulting to a an entire segment of the country's population...

18 August 2012 at 00:03  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Andrew Dalton another one of the Lads, who has realised, Russia has bigger problems than this

Englands problem is why is our media concerned with this

18 August 2012 at 00:12  
Blogger Trofim said...

"Putin's Russia has regressed to the Soviet era".

I'm a Russian speaker. I lived in the USSR for a year. You're talking utter tosh. Putin's Russia is highly imperfect but light years away from the Soviet Union.
I can't be bothered to go through it all again, but look at my (Trofim's) contribution on this page:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/08/why-pussy-riot-were-wrong/

It took Pussy Riot three tries before they were arrested.

In the USSR the incident would immediately have been suppressed and it would have the status of Tien Anmen Square 1989 in China now - it just didn't happen. Now, as I said in my other comment linked to above " . . . a couple of hundred prominent figures in Russian society - including a few pro-Putin figures, and 40,000 others, have signed a petition asking for clemency, a world famous pop star, Madonna, declaimed her support for the band before an tens of thousands on the dictator's doorstep and the whole matter is discussed and debated ad nauseum in countless Russian TV and radio programmes and on the internet".
And like it or not, Mr Cranmer, the sentiments of ordinary Russians are curiously similar to the majority of your commentators here, and they strongly resent being lectured to by people who know eff all about their country and them.

18 August 2012 at 00:17  
Blogger Trofim said...

"Putin's Russia has regressed to the Soviet era".

I'm a Russian speaker. I lived in the USSR for a year. You're talking utter tosh. Putin's Russia is highly imperfect but light years away from the Soviet Union.
I can't be bothered to go through it all again, but look at Trofim's contribution on this page:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/08/why-pussy-riot-were-wrong/

It took Pussy Riot three tries before they were arrested.

In the USSR the incident would immediately have been suppressed and it would have the status of Tien Anmen Square 1989 in China now - it just didn't happen. Now, as I said in my other comment linked to above " . . . a couple of hundred prominent figures in Russian society - including a few pro-Putin figures, and 40,000 others, have signed a petition asking for clemency, a world famous pop star, Madonna, declaimed her support for the band before an tens of thousands on the dictator's doorstep and the whole matter is discussed and debated ad nauseum in countless Russian TV and radio programmes and on the internet".
And like it or not, Mr Cranmer, the sentiments of ordinary Russians are curiously similar to the majority of your commentators here, and they strongly resent being lectured to by people who know eff all about their country.

18 August 2012 at 00:18  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Inspector General has put forth for the group some ideas about what should be done with the Straw

I never did like Jack although psyops is not the way to deal with the man

We need something decent and honest, we cannot keep serving these manufactured industries if we want decency, untill they can be manned with the decent

And whilst I do not wish to seem like I am going off the subject, from YGs orignal post

I have always supprorted YG...

Three cheers for the Big G!

18 August 2012 at 00:33  
Blogger Dioscorus Boles said...

I think the overwhelming response in condemnation of Pussy Riot's action, though not necessarily in support of the harsh sentence against them, from the readers of His Grace ought to make HG revise his article.

18 August 2012 at 00:39  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

John Magee

Sir, with your defence of Orthodoxy you have gone up in my estimation.

I rediscovered my faith in Christ in a small Greek Orthodox Church in the Peloponnese. It was a wonderful place. Simple but beautiful and had a truly inspiring Icon of Jesus and Mary that genuinely touched my soul.

Inspector

Friend, you know my views on appropriate sentencing are not as harsh as thine. As you know, I am of a more gentle disposition and disinclined to approve of execution.

18 August 2012 at 01:24  
Blogger John Magee said...

Trofim

I am a child of the 1940's. All my life the grestest hope of decent freedom loving people everywhere was that the USSR would collapse and atheistic Communism would end in that vast land, rich in natural resources, with a profoundly long suffering history. Finally the USSR did die in 1991 and once again there is religious freedom in the new Russia. Although the Orthodox Church wasn't thrilled with the fundamentalist Protestant missionaries and Mormons who rushed there to make conversions. Who could blame the Russian Orthodox for that attitude? Their people have been Orthodox Christian for over 1,000 years and thier Church had recently suffered 74 years of unbelievable religious persecution. In the case of these stupid and silly girls I disagree with the harsh prison terms they received while at the same time I totally condemn their cavorting inside the Cathedral The Savior Cathedral in Moscow as blasphemy agaisnt the Eucharist. Earlier I posted that work in a hospital with the terminally ill for six months would have been an appropriate punish for their blasphemous antics. As much as I am suspicious of Putin because of his KGB past amd other thing's he's done since his conversion to Orthodoxy, in the old USSR the KGB secret police would have delt with these girls ruthlessly. Had they pulled this stunt at Lenin's Tomb in Red Square in Moscow in 1980 they would have been immediatley arrested and vanished without a trace somewhere into the vastness of the Gulag never to be heard of again. Today in 2012 in Putin's Russia the world knows what they did and the pinishment they received and there are even protests allowed in Russia. Large scale protests like these would have never had happened only 21 years ago in the former USSR. It's a nasty story but Russia has changed. I hope these girls find Christ in prison.

18 August 2012 at 01:26  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo

For a truly inspirational viewing of Byzantine Eastern Orthodox mosaics and wall frescoes please look up on your search: Chora Museum. They are the most beautiful I have ever seen and not well known.

This museum is the former Church of the Holy Savior now in a suburb of Istanbuhl turned into a mosque when Islamic Jihad conquered that city in 1453. The Church was built in the 1110's and contains the most beautiful mosaics I have ever seen. They were white washed when the church was turned into a mosque and thank God suffered very little damage over the centuries until the Turkish government realizing what treasures were under the white wash and plaster allowed a team of Americans to slowly restore them since the late 1940's. Please look at web site photos of these beautiful works of Byzantine Eastern Orthodox art. the faces of Christ and Mary are too fantastic for me to articulate. Please visit the official CHORA web site or the many many web sites with photos of the recovered and restored mosaics and let me know what you think. Thank you.

http://www.choramuseum.com/

18 August 2012 at 01:38  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

John Magee

Thank you for this link and I will most certainly look at these images and let you know my views.

18 August 2012 at 01:45  
Blogger Robert said...

Your Grace? So if a group of disgruntled Anglican Islamists burst into your chapel and defecated on your alter to protest your lack of concern about Gitmo (a valid concern to all Muslims, Sunni, Shia and Anglican alike) , you would be fine with that?

18 August 2012 at 03:12  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Gitmo is a place of torture and brainwashing, that is worship, in the sence our worshipfull masters would have it

18 August 2012 at 03:36  
Blogger Andrei said...

Take a look at your own country which is falling into squalor, filth and degeneracy before you criticize others.

Not that you don't imprison people for speaking their minds either - let a woman express her concern about immigration on a train and she get locked up doesn't she?

And try and maintain standards in you own guest house and you find yourself before the courts if you wont give homosexuals a double bed

Glass houses

18 August 2012 at 06:20  
Blogger len said...

Putin wants to restore Russia to the position it once held as a 'superpower'.
Putin knows that he can only do this by holding the 'forces who want freedom of expression' in check.

So anyone who 'pushes the boundaries' in regard of person freedoms and liberties will be made an example of to show others this will not be tolerated.


18 August 2012 at 07:25  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

What Andrei said...

18 August 2012 at 07:25  
Blogger F.G.S.A. said...

I've always suspected Cranmer was not an Old High Tory. He's merely conservative of the Protestant Succession (and all that is implies) and a mere Joo-loving Whig. Oh, Filmer and Bolingbroke!

18 August 2012 at 07:39  
Blogger F.G.S.A. said...

@ Len

We've long known that you are dumb and that it is useless to try to engage in rational intercourse with you, yet we would want you to explain to us how defiling a space considered sacred by milion, invading the worship space of worshippers, and disturbing the peace of such space can ever constitute an act of freedom of speech?

Doesn't your Bible, to whose literal interpretation, you seem to be committed ordain the punishment of such people?

When His Grace tries his hand at commenting on traditionalism in all its forms and manifestations, and when he tries to defend patent and obvious attacks against the same, he lamentably fails.

I'm sure pictures of Lawrence and Dayan must adorn the eastern wall of his study.

18 August 2012 at 07:50  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Andrei: "Not that you don't imprison people for speaking their minds either - let a woman express her concern about immigration on a train and she get locked up doesn't she?"

She was doing more than 'expressing her concern', I think. As far as I know, her court case hasn't been heard yet so I think you're rather jumping the gun there. It's not a bad comparison with the Pussy Riot case though when you think about it.

I've not thought too much about the Pussy Riot case but that tram thing is a public order issue to me, I wouldn't like to have to be subjected to that sort of stuff on public transport every day going to work.

"And try and maintain standards in you own guest house and you find yourself before the courts if you wont give homosexuals a double bed"

A different sort of court, of course. However, there's been an interesting development there. The couple, or rather their puppet masters, have just got permission to take their case to the Supreme Court. I've been waiting to post that link somewhere appropriate here.

I really looking forward to that case, irrespective of the final outcome. I don't know how narrow the scope will be but I think it's reasonable to start formally clarifying some of these clashes of rights and setting precedents.

18 August 2012 at 08:06  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Andrei: "Take a look at your own country which is falling into squalor, filth and degeneracy before you criticize others."

It still seems to be a very popular place though. I really like it here myself. A safe, stable, affluent, nominally free place with a good standard of living, relatively speaking. People are free to emigrate too if they like and if they can find somewhere more suited to themselves which will have them.

18 August 2012 at 08:11  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 August 2012 at 08:11  
Blogger non mouse said...

Your Grace: Hmmm. 'The female of the species,' and all that -- though I'm not qualified to judge this set of females: the Judge or the Protestants, sorry, I mean Protesters.

For starters, I know nothing of Russian legal proceedings, but it seems reasonable to suppose the female Judge (?Marxist-Feminist) had some input in the sentencing of the dissidents. Even if she's Marxist-secularist, it's odd that she's... er... inaccurate about lay-preaching. Well, that's the nature of some beasts.

For seconders though, nothing would induce me even to read the lyrics of the group (or of any Western counterparts). Some might go a step further and raise the question of whether such children are better off separated from punk parents. Others might claim that the silly dollies will learn the real meaning of "prison" by being there. I can only say the situation looks terrible, for both parents and children.

For thirders, however,---where is a Western person to get a quick sketch about the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) except through Wiki? There (with the usual caveats), I learn that ROC is "second only to the Roman Catholic Church in terms of numbers of followers" [...] "over 150 million worldwide." The hierocracy is governed not by a Papaseato, but by a nominally less powerful Patriarch and a "council of representatives," [but that hasn't convened since 787 :))) ]. One patriarch even anathematised communists, in 1918; however post-glasnost, by the '90s, the KGB situation had developed.("ROC") Your Grace observes the result.

For fourthers, then, it might be illuminating to learn more about the ROC's relationships with authoritarian regimes other than Communism: especially the RCs. We know they never give up on those who presume to be independent; why should this is be different? On alternative Christian relationships, Wiki indicates that Moscow's ROCs are presently interested in ameliorating affairs. They make nice noises towards islam, as well ("ROC: Interfaith Relations.)"

Hmmm. So we have the recent RC moves towards Mormon/Evangelicalism in the US, and now this. I guess the dollies aren't the only ones who are getting publicity out of the situation.

So far then, I agree absolutley with Your Grace. This was a show-trial inquisition for all Russia, and we must thank God that Pussy Riot have brought the true nature of Putin's Russia to the attention of the world.

After all, it's even possible that we all should fight for freedom from a Diversity of Authoritarian Regimes. For their children and for ours.

18 August 2012 at 08:20  
Blogger David B said...

I find myself feeling a lot of sympathy with Albert's post of 20.44.

David

18 August 2012 at 08:29  
Blogger Neil Addison said...

http://religionlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/pussy-riot-in-british-church.html

Whilst I personally think the sentence was excessive there is one aspect to the incident which has not been commented on in the British media and may explain why Orthodox believers in Russia were quite so outraged. The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour is of special importance. It is a reconstruction of a Cathedral which was deliberately
destroyed in 1931 as part of the persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union . During this persecution groups such as the League of Militant Atheists often desecrated Churches and engaged in parodies of religious ritual whilst singing obscene songs.

In the West we seem to have almost forgotten Communism and the evils it brought but people in Russia have not. I notice that in Court one of the Pussy Riot demonstrators wore a R Shirt bearing a clenched fist and the words "No Pasaran" which was a slogan of the Spanish Communist Party during the Spanish Civil War. It was a bit like appearing in a German Court wearing a T Shirt with a Nazi Slogan. In those circumstances perhaps it is not surprising if Russians have taken a rather less rosy eyed view of the incident than that of the Western media

18 August 2012 at 08:30  
Blogger non mouse said...

Regrets. I should have cited Your Grace properly ... didn't see that.

Mine @ 8:20 should read, ... Your Grace: This was a show-trial inquisition for all Russia, and we must thank God that Pussy Riot have brought the true nature of Putin's Russia to the attention of the world.

18 August 2012 at 08:57  
Blogger len said...

FGSA,

Try to look at' the bigger picture'of Putin`s intentions and why the harshness of the sentences of 'Pussy riot'

(I know this will be difficult for you limited as you are to mindless insults)

18 August 2012 at 09:04  
Blogger Flossie said...

I haven't been following this story as I felt they were just a group of silly ill-mannered girls behaving badly. But then I clicked on His Grace's link to the You Tube video of the incident, and was incensed to hear the murdering of one of the most beautiful and sublime pieces of music of all time, the Ave Maria from Rachmaninoff's Vespers.

Lock them up and throw away the key, I say!

If anyone wants to hear the real thing, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTH0pcu_t_8

18 August 2012 at 09:33  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len.

FGSA is a damn good judge of character, don’t you find...

It’s obvious to all on this site who loathe your appearance here that you scramble at any opportunity to give organised Christian religion a good kicking. You are doing Satan’s work and when the due time comes, he will claim your soul and you will duly be handed over...

18 August 2012 at 11:05  
Blogger Jim McLean said...

I, like some others here am surprised at the idea being promoted that this is a political issue and an issue of free speech.

If the group had carried out their song/protest on the top of a building, or on the high street, or taken it to a political building then perhaps I would have some sympathy at the length of sentence.

This band did what they did in a place of worship, without permission and had total disregard for the feelings and rights of others to go about their business of praying.

Perhaps with one eye on the long-term possibility of fame and a recording contract? They must have deliberately chosen the venue and made an informed decision, despite there being young children who risked losing their mother for a long time.

Stipid girls, stupid band...or maybe calculating. But the end does not justify the means.

18 August 2012 at 11:11  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector

Tad harsh on the weasel. Let us pray God will take into account his very obvious lack of intelligence and inability to reason. Today this is referred to as "learning disabilities". A generation ago it called "mental subnormality".

18 August 2012 at 13:02  
Blogger Nick said...

Sorry Your Grace, but I have to disagree with many aspects of what you have written. While it is true that Putin ruthlessly suppresses political opposition and the punishment given to these girls is too harsh, they are still far from innocent. There is also a stink of hypocrisy in the way Westerners have cried foul over this. Where were these protesters when Litvinenko was murdered? Where were they when all the other opponents of Putin were locked up on trumped up charges? After all, none of these people perpetrated the kind of hate-filled anti-theistic acts that Pussy Riot perpetrated. The main difference was they didn't have their names painted on Madonna’s @rse and weren't openly supporting gay rights. This is why Western politicians have decided to jump on this populist bandwagon

18 August 2012 at 13:08  
Blogger Issai said...

Cranmer you two-faced coward, after all your bleating about free-speech. I link to a classic case of double-standards and you removed the entire thing so no-one else could see.

18 August 2012 at 14:00  
Blogger John Magee said...

Neil

Excellent observation about the history of The Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow,

We will never read about the martyrdom of Catholic priests, monks, and nuns during the Red terror during the Spanish Civil War during the late 1930's. The left wing media then and now what's to keep horor story quiet. A lot of zealot left wing "geniuses" from Oxford, Cambridge, and their fellow morons from universities in the USA volunteered to go to Republican Spain and participated in or cheered the brutality of the Communist Republican Army. Here is a breakdown on the Catholic clergy martyrs of the Spanish Civil War that the left wants hushed up today. I quote:

"In the course of the Red Terror, 6,832 members of the Catholic clergy, 20% percent of the nation's clergy, were killed. The figures break down the as follows: Some 283 women religious were killed. Some of them were badly tortured. 13 bishops were killed from the dioceses of Siguenza Lleida, Cuenca, Barbastro, Segorbe, Jaén, Ciudad Real, Almeria, Guadix, Barcelona, Teruel and the auxiliary of Tarragona.[47] Aware of the dangers, they all decided to remain in their cities. I cannot go, only here is my responsibility, whatever may happen, so said the Bishop of Cuenca. In addition 4,172 diocesan priests, 2,364 monks and friars, among them 259 Claretians, 226 Franciscans, 204 Piarists, 176 Brothers of Mary, 165 Christian Brothers (also called the De La Salle Brothers), 155 Augustinians, 132 Dominicans, and 114 Jesuits were killed. In some dioceses, the number of secular priests killed are overwhelming. 1939: end of the war; a total of 7000 clergymen and 3000 religious people murdered for practicing Catholicism."

If you can take the time to search on the internet there is a famous photo that was printed in the London Daily Mail of a squad of Republican thugs atually "executing" a large statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

I forgot... At the end of the Spanish Civil War the USSR's "advisors" and their Spanish Communist pals looted the entire Spanish goverenment's gold reserve and sent it by ship back to the USSR!

British novelist George Orwell, a leftist with a sense of honesty and decency, wrote about his experiences in Spain as an observer of the horrors perpetrated by the Communists he personally wittnessed in Spain in 1937. His observations were written in his book "Homage to Catalonia" published in 1938. I am sure it's not at the top of any PC "must read books" list by the left wing brats at our universities these days. Nor would his other book about totalitarianism, "Animal Farm", get their attention today either. His allegorical novella "Animal Farm" about a group of animals who kick out the humans from the farm on which they live and run it themselves, only to have it degenerate into a brutal tyrany of its own. We live in his book "Animal farm" today in 2012: "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"

18 August 2012 at 14:01  
Blogger John Magee said...

Len

Putin has gone from a atheist KGB thug in the former USSR to becoming an Orthodox Christian convert and Russian Nationalist after the collapse of the USSR. He wants the old Russian Empire restored with himself made the "emperor". Beware The Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States, etc! In my opinion he is the ultimate opportunistic slime ball rat who can never be trusted.

18 August 2012 at 14:12  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Issai,

You are impertinent: His Grace has a spam filter (actually, it is Blogger's) which auto-sweeps at intervals and removes most posts which contain hyperlinks (sadly, not all).

His Grace could have (and would have) restored your post, since he has fear of neither free speech nor obtuse and tiresome people like you who hurl unwarranted insults. But since you prefer ad hominem, you are manifestly out of place upon His Grace's blog of intelligent and erudite comment. So, go and spout your puerile insults elsewhere, there's a good boy/girl.

18 August 2012 at 14:17  
Blogger Jeremiah Methuselah said...

“Archbishop” Cranmer :

I cannot help but wonder how many of your faithful followers you will have lost by supporting this disgustingly-named “Pussy Riot” female trash ?

It seems you are not exactly what you purport to be - for all your cleverness, do you still claim to be a Christian, since you support the invasion of the most deeply cherished Moscow Christian place of worship by overtly political demonstrators, who cavort in outrageous costumes and mouth foul words - what the Hell is the matter with you ? Have you lost all semblance of decency ? Or were you pretending all the time ? I just wonder.

You have joined trash such as “Madonna (itself a blasphemous provocation) , McCartney and the whole of the liberal brigadistas in supporting them. Do you enjoy the company you find yourself in ? Ought you not be addressed as “DisGrace” from now on ?

Time for a rethink and a very big apology, I would say.

18 August 2012 at 14:48  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr "Jeremiah Methuselah",

You, and all who disagree with His Grace, are more than welcome never to visit his blog again. This is still (just about) a free country.

18 August 2012 at 14:57  
Blogger John Magee said...

I can still hear the gavel ringing in my ears!

18 August 2012 at 15:15  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

His Grace is right to be concerned about political oppression and express a wish to protect freedom of speech, but with these girls I think what they did in that Church was a self promoting publicity stunt more than a political statement. Too harshly punished yes

A bit like our rebel rock bands of the 60's and 70's that used to trash hotel rooms after blasting out politically tainted lyrics at their gigs. Some even used to trash the stage and their own instruments at the concert.

If they are a serious political movement, then why didn't they give their full support to Dimitry Medvedev to become President again? Putin is the corrupt bully boy and antagonist, whereas the former is more of a forward thinker with decent values who was a President that launched an anti corruption campaign from 08 to 12. He's been manoeuvred out of the way into the Prime Ministers role now under Putin even though there was more support for him from the people.

18 August 2012 at 15:37  
Blogger Bill Sticker said...

In essence, the band performed a bad song, badly, with a poor dance routine in a church, making insulting gestures which upset the worshipers. I watched their own video of the event twice, and my first reaction was that they should have been shot for crimes against music. Never mind hooliganism or desecration.

18 August 2012 at 17:32  
Blogger John Magee said...

Hooliganism sounds so SOVIET! So KBGish. Why can't the Russians get hip and use the words juvenile delinquents to describe illegal behavior by minors? Better yet, what is the word for young hooligans in French? The Russian Nobility used to speak French. Is it "L'enfants terrible"? Someone who knows French please enlighten me.

18 August 2012 at 17:57  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Those pussy things are going to continue recording inside. Tracks lined up are...

Jailhouse Rock
Working on a Chain Gang
I Fought the Law
Back in the USSR
Busted
Lets Face the Music and Dance

18 August 2012 at 18:23  
Blogger Trofim said...

http://gawker.com/5935685/topless-femen-activist-takes-down-giant-cross-with-chainsaw-to-protest-pussy-riot-verdict-%5Bnsfw%5D

The topless Ukrainian feminist protest group FEMEN have cut down a cross erected as a memorial to the victims of communism in Kiev, as a gesture of support for Pussy Riot. Disgusting, but, on the other hand, they are nicer to look at than Pussy Riot.

18 August 2012 at 18:48  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

@John Magee

Hooliganism sounds so SOVIET! So KBGish. Why can't the Russians get hip and use the words juvenile delinquents to describe illegal behavior by minors?

I don't think they actually are minors, but in any event, the new, Putin-esque Russia is quite westernized: the charge was actually hooliganism motivated by religious hatred. I mean, just how much more western, liberal and right-on can you get, John?

18 August 2012 at 19:02  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I thought the term hooligan came from the Irish Hoolihan

I am sure the old lags are looking forward to a performance by the pussies

18 August 2012 at 21:48  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Your Grace

I thrust these new upstarts hurling abuse at you will not result in the loss of my acolade:

the most tedious communicant upon His Grace's blog

18 August 2012 at 21:55  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

One can't help but notice, DanJ0 has little to say on Pussy.

(Yes, it's Saturday night!)

18 August 2012 at 22:00  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector was thing the very same Bone. Presumably the Micks built a few canals and railways around Moscow and were paid in whiskey...

The canals and the bridges, the embankments and cuts,
They blasted and dug with their sweat and their guts
They never drank water but whiskey by pints
And the shanty towns rang with their songs and their fights.

Navigator, navigator rise up and be strong
The morning is here and there's work to be done.
Take your pick and your shovel and the bold dynamite
For to shift a few tons of this earthly delight
Yes to shift a few tons of this earthly delight.

18 August 2012 at 23:01  
Blogger Nick said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 August 2012 at 23:40  
Blogger John Magee said...

Corrigan

Here in our wacky and weird West today the only religion it's acceptable to hate is Christianity. To be specific the Roman Catholic Church, traditional Protestant Churches, and Evangelical Protestants. At least in today's Russia they enforce their laws against mockery and hatred of religion and atcually arrest people who trespass and cavort and spew filth in an Orthodox Cathedral. All is well. At least temporarily. Today's news says the Russian Orthodox Church forgives these brats.

A few years ago in the USA a group of gay male transvestites (not straight male transvestites) "nuns" who call themselves "The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" entered a RC Church in San Francisco at Communion time dressed in their flamboyant "habits", faces covered in thick makeup with long eye lashes, creating a commotion by singing their idiotic songs and dancing (not to be confused with similar dancing and singing these days in liberal Protestant churches. At least don't think so)and atcually having the temerity to take Holy Communion (why did the priest's give it to them???). Several of these nasty freaks took the Host in their hands threw it on the floor and stomped it. Others took Communion on their tongue and spit it out. They were arrested and charged with trespassing. Then fined. Apparently the Americans don't have the same anti religious hate laws as the Russians do these days unless it's Muslims claiming to be harassed in some way.

Like every big city, outside the Communist and Islamic World, New York City has it's own gigantic "Gay Pride Parade" each spring that saunters for hours up 5th Avenue in that great city. Hundreds of Gay groups take great "pride" in giving the finger to the beautiful St. Patrick's Cathedral on that same street. The "Dykes on Bikes", a "butch" lesbian motorycle group, love to stop in front of the same Cathedral and bear their hideous breasts as a form of "protest". I rather imagine the cops on duty that day had plenty of notes to compare with each other after their work day! Nothing happens to any of these Gay groups after a day insulting St. Patrick's Cathedral. This is what we Catholics and traditional Protestants have to endure in the form insults from this minority in our multicultural cess pools and we dare not protest this stuff or WE are called the haters!

What these feminist sluts did in Christ the Savior Cathedral was deliberate blasphemy and they knew it. All things considered two years in jail was too harsh. My punishment, as I already posted, would be six months working in a hospice or cancer ward at a hospital emptying bed pans, cleaning bed sores, and wiping soiled bottoms of the terminally ill.

It's all too bizarre to comprehend if you once lived in a time when sanity and common sense was the norm, as I had the good fortune live in once, a long ago.

Meanwhile. Gays and women who commit adultery in Muslim countries where Islamic Law of Sharia is the law of the land are hanged or stoned to death every week and there is not a peep in their defense from the prominent Westerners defending these Russian blasphemers.

This is my contribution diverse opinion here. Thank you YG.

18 August 2012 at 23:53  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Nick, contents viewed and what can one say. If the girl is indeed the same, then a great many Pussy Riot sympathisers are going to feel rather embarrassed at being taken in by none other than a shameless whore of an exhibitionist...

18 August 2012 at 23:54  
Blogger Nick said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

18 August 2012 at 23:58  
Blogger John Magee said...

Any Anglicans here familiar with Edward Bouverie Pusey? If so you know he was a leader in the Oxford Movement in the mid 19th century and apparently caused his own Pusey "riot" back then with the controversary he caused within the C of E. His High Church movement was known as Puseyism and his follwers know as Puseyites. This is not a joke.

19 August 2012 at 00:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

19 August 2012 at 00:17  
Blogger John Magee said...

Inspector

Fasten your seat belt. Pussey Riot copycats will be coming to a church near you (and me). Their feminist sisters in our sick societies are looking for any excuse to do it.

19 August 2012 at 02:38  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Inspector @ 00.17, before you pass judgement on these women, who freely admit their offense, you really should read the closing statements that each of them made at their trial. The link to their statements is in His Grace's post.

If these women are degenerate sluts we need more like them with their learning and capacity to present a well reasoned argument. They are not fools. In twenty or thirty years time one can imagine them being either respected politicians or very rich, if their careers were to develop in a business sense.

This communicant earnestly hopes that the Pussy Riot girls are not crushed or destroyed by the Russian prison system.

19 August 2012 at 08:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "One can't help but notice, DanJ0 has little to say on Pussy."

Too busy watching the latest X Factor series, of course. I thought all your googling about my personal life was supposed to have been very 'revealing'? ;)

19 August 2012 at 09:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

bluedog: "If these women are degenerate sluts we need more like them with their learning and capacity to present a well reasoned argument."

Their statements are a little bit, well, clichéd. Grandiose, too. It's still impressive that they were willing to martyr themselves to make their points, nevertheless, as the outcome was surely pretty likely.

19 August 2012 at 09:49  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr DanJo @ 09.49 - they're all under 25! You can't expect too much.

If Putin had half a brain he would invite them in for a chat, listen to them, explain why he thinks they are wrong and then arrange a presidential pardon, plus photo-op, of course.

As it is, by using heavy-handed tactics he has given the PR girls the PR coup of their lives. Putin needs to turn that around and use their popularity to his own benefit.

19 August 2012 at 10:30  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

They're right that it has provoked international condemnation for this instance but they seem to think that people outside the Russian Federation don't really recognise that the political and legal culture in Moscow and beyond is a pile of cack. There's no point drawing the world's attention to it, I'm sure we already know.

19 August 2012 at 10:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. Copycat defilement of our own churches is on the cards, but one senses it will not be feminist driven. After all, that crowd has more or less all it’s objectives. To wit, the murder of the unborn next generation on demand, if they feel like it that is. The erosion of the traditional family unit to the detriment of the children they do allow to be born. Removal of the differences between the sexes. One could go on...

No, step forward the LGBT hate mob. As fervently rabid anti religious as the finest Stalinist...

Ah, good natured Bluedog, trying to find good where there is none. The Inspector has not read the women’s statements, as of course, these would have been penned by everyone other than the miscreants. Off you go, faithful hound, your tail is being wagged for you...

19 August 2012 at 12:33  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Inspector @ 12.33, extract from statement by Nadezhda Tolokonnikova: 'It was our search for truth that led us to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior. I think that Christianity, as I understood it while studying the Old and especially the New Testament, supports the search for truth and a constant overcoming of oneself, the overcoming of what you were earlier. It was not in vain that when Christ was among the prostitutes, he said that those who falter should be helped; “I forgive them,” He said. I do not see this in our trial, which takes place under the banner of Christianity. Instead, it seems to me that the prosecution is trampling on religion.'

Anti-religious?

19 August 2012 at 13:13  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Bluedog, translates as “I almost lost control of my bodily functions when I heard I face seven years in chokey for acting the fool. I was a good girl once, who knows about the bible, and look, if Jesus can go easy on a prostitute, surely you can give me a break, for God’s sake”

Apparently it worked. She got off lightly in the circumstances...

Now away with you goodly hound. Juicy meat bone awaits in the kitchen...

19 August 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger John Magee said...

Bluedog

Ms Nadezhda Tolokonnikova has succeeded in pulling the wool over anyone's eye's who atcually believes her statement. If it's true these young women have done everything from having public sex to making adult movies she is a liar. Or as the American President Abraham Lincoln once said

“You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”

Some of us weren't born yesterday. We witnessed the complete moral collapse and decay of religion in the West along with the other social diseases that have wrecked millions of lives such as drug use and the destruction of the family. The social and pop culture revolutions of the late 1960's are now infecting Russia. The Soviet's managed to keep these social evils of the West out of the USSR or at least underground by strict control of the population. After the Collapse of the USSR all that changed in the new Russia.

I'm all for freedom and protest but not for blasphemy in any church for any reason ever.

The young women are frauds and liars and they know it. Pussy Riot took their inspiration from the '90s American punk rock movement Riot Grrrl, which sought to take feminist theory out of the classroom and into the streets. Now they're teaching the world how it's done.

19 August 2012 at 15:32  
Blogger bluedog said...

John Magee @ 15.32 said, 'The Soviet's managed to keep these social evils of the West out of the USSR or at least underground by strict control of the population.'

Well, Comrade, the logical conclusion to that statement is that we should suspend democracy and the rule of law in the West and enjoy a Stalinist dictatorship without freedom of speech or conscience. Can't trust them critturs, find out what they're doing, tell them to stop it and turn the country into a gulag.

'Strict control of the population', I don't think so.

'We witnessed the complete moral collapse and decay of religion in the West.' If so, why?

What has happened is the decline of membership of many large community groupings - political parties, trades unions etc. The largest community groups extant today are probably sport related, such as football clubs.

Is sport the new religion?

If so, can you cope?

19 August 2012 at 22:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


Bluedog, fine chap that you are , we don’t want to lose you. You represent decent Britain, but you must understand we have been eroded by increments. It’s why you haven’t noticed that much in the past. These socialist liberals, just to make sure, put a lot of this past us while we were standing up and barking against mass alien immigration. ‘Fraid to say it, old hound, but you’ve been bounced along with the rest of us.

So, we don’t want to suspend democracy (...well, at least not until we need to, now there’s honesty for you...) but we desperately need to to keep your types on side. So, old faithful, are you with us ?



19 August 2012 at 22:30  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Inspector @ 22.30, this communicant is sure that your heart is in the right place, it is however perplexing that your eyes don't always see, or even try to see.

19 August 2012 at 23:18  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Bluedog. There may be trouble ahead, but while there's music and moonlight and love and romance, let's face the music and dance...

We’ll get by old chap, what ever it takes. Don’t forget that now...



19 August 2012 at 23:38  
Blogger John Magee said...

bluedog

I merely commented on how the Soviets kept their people in lockstep with the Soviet Government's "dictatorship of the proletariat". Their methods were strict control using their secret police and the fear looming over every Soviet Citizen of a 5 to 20 year stint in the Gulag that might include being killed if they ever said or did the slightest thing that offended their Soviet masters.I hate all dictatorships both on the left and the right. I particularly hate Communism in any form.

The loss of Western Civilization's moral and religious values since the French Revolution were replaced by empty secular values. Our modern pop culture obsessions with instant gratification and the youth culture are part of the reason why we are in the miserable condition we are today. That's my opinion.

Sport is a religion to a lot of people. Look at the football crazies or people who' lives focus on the sports page in the newspapers or cable TV. All that's fine of course. Sports to me are simply games to exercize the body, test one's coordination skills, and socialize with friends. Nothing to get excited about. certainly nothing to riot about.

All the hype over the 2012 Olympics or any other Olympics was and is a crashing bore in my opinion.

I guess I am a bore.

20 August 2012 at 00:10  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

DanJ0

Ah, X Factor. I quite forgot. It's not a programme I watch.

So is the chap from 'boy band', who's name escapes me, proving a worthy replacement for Simon? And are your fears he would be over exposed being realised.

John Magee

You knowledge of history and current affairs is impressive. I also agree with the content of many of your observations and commentaries.

One personal observation, if I may. You must not become bitter or express such despair about the future. Remember God's provedential care and the unfoldingof His Will. As a Christian, one must maintain and communicate a message of hope and joy even in darkening times.

I entirely agree with the Inspector

"There may be trouble ahead, but while there's music and moonlight and love and romance, let's face the music and dance..."

As an Irishman (you are partly Irish?) and a Catholic you must surely know this.

20 August 2012 at 00:54  
Blogger Steve Compton said...

They didn't break anything & they didn't hurt anyone. I think a month in jail would have sufficed. Regardless of Pussy Riot's intention 2 years is an excessive punishment.

It's so good to know that the clergy has forgiven them their crimes.

I hope the patriarch is enjoying his $38,000.00 Breguet watch.

20 August 2012 at 01:26  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo

Did you by chance check out the fantastic restored mosaics and frescoes at the Chora Museum (Church of the Most Holy Savior built in the 1100's)and a former mosque ater 1553 in Istanbuhl? If so I hope you saw really good quality photos of them. The mosaic detail work, especially on the faces, is very beautiful and moving.

20 August 2012 at 03:58  
Blogger John Magee said...

Steve

Regarding the Patriarch of Moscow and his "expensive watch". Twenty years ago when the American TV Evangelist and con artist extraordinaire, Jim Bakker, was on trial for corruption charges after milking millons of his followers of their hard earned money which he and his shyster pals used to build his multi billion dollar "religious theme park" and resort. A sort of Evangelical Christian Disneyland he called "Heritage USA" located in Sorth Carolina. It was reavealed during the court proceedings that his own condominium had, among many obscene extravagancies for a man of God in the late 20th century, solid gold faucets in the bathrooms. His weak comment was: "God doesn't like junk"....

How many times has that be said and thought by corrupt religious leaders down through the ages?

20 August 2012 at 04:24  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

music moonlight love and romance

Inspector, you may find it difficult to find a well endowed foxy moron cat hater to keep you warm at night.Think...mail order!

20 August 2012 at 06:19  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Inspector this may have been a little unkind, so to atone, consider this as a gift to warm the cockles of your heart.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-LbvFckptY

20 August 2012 at 07:07  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo

My facade is a professional crepehanger because the world is a nasty place. My soul is my love of Christ and all he promises us. I am a convert to the Roman Catholic Church who loves my Anglican brothers and sisters. I deeply mourn the fact that had they not given into the fads of our modern era we might have been united again with the C of E united with Rome as are the Uniate Catholics of the east. That's all.

20 August 2012 at 07:30  
Blogger bluedog said...

You're all heart, Cressida @ 07.07.

But doesn't it always end like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQWgKvvbT1g ?

20 August 2012 at 08:11  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Darling Cressida.

You are so much more interesting at your most hormonal. You so remind the Inspector of his youth. It was the sparkiest of gals who really enjoyed hanging out with the men.

Vive le difference, what !

20 August 2012 at 08:39  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Back Off B Dog! This one reminds me of you.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8Ss28zjcE

20 August 2012 at 09:25  
Blogger bluedog said...

Huh? Not taking me walkies today?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4h1ikePaA

20 August 2012 at 10:14  
Blogger Jon said...

My goodness, the inmates are revolting!

Your Grace, I think you're analysis is correct (although the bits about Orthodox dogma lost me, I'm afraid).

In principle, these women didn't shout fire in the metaphorical crowded theatre, they did something (admittedly self- publicising), presumably in the expectation that they would be sent to prison (corrective labour was on the cards I thought?) Having citizens say things we find unpalatable, whilst defending their right to do so is the hallmark of a free society, and I'm staggered that other commenters are prepared to overlook this for a low attack on their name, clothing, or the music they play.

Many of them go on and on at some considerable length about their conspiracies of the left wing attempts to silence criticism of the "PC agenda". When a group of women speak up about corruption in their society, they are derided as attention seekers by the self same people.

What a shame.

20 August 2012 at 10:24  
Blogger Chauntrye Pryste said...

Today it was reported on the BBC text news that an 11yr old mentally disabled Christian girl in Pakistan has been arrested for allegedly defacing pages of the Koran.
I am now waiting for Madonna, Sir Paul, Amnesty International, various Governments et al [and I hope, at some point, My Lord's Grace] to generate the same level of 'shock', 'outrage' and 'horror' and to call for, at the very least, regime change.

20 August 2012 at 14:27  
Blogger John Magee said...

Jon

Freedom of speech means you have the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. But that does not allow you to tresspass on their property and go into their homes insult them in their living living room.

The sanctuary of a cathedral or a church is God's living room to Orthodox Christians. Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and most Protestants.

When will we see the world's feminist's rise up in feminist outrage and start invading mosque's and protest Islam's brutal treatment of women making them slaves to their husbands, forced female circumcision, and "honor killings, etc? Feminist's wouldn't try the same stunt these Pussy Riot brats did in a Moscow Cathedral that sits on the site (literally) of the first martyred Christ the Savior Cathedral destroyed by order of Stalin in the early 1930's in a mosque would they? Why not? Because everyone knows their heads would be severed in a flash.

Yes, I consider the tens of thousands of Russian Orthodox churches, cathedrals, chapels, shrines, monasteries, convents, and cemeteries dug up and desecrated by the Communist's in the USSR from 1917 until the early 1950's when Stalin died symbolic martyrs of stone and wood.

Traditional Christianity is an easy target for the left because they know they will have no price to pay for insulting us, trashing our churces, or telling lies about us.

20 August 2012 at 16:47  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Jon, your sentiment at 10:24 is that of the true abdicating liberal. If it feels good, do it, huh ?

The two years sentence is having a remarkable effect on similar protests. Not one punk outfit has seen the need to express its solidarity with the pussies by undertaking a similar stunt at their church. To think, if it wasn’t for the concept of law and order and standards in public decency, entire mother Russia could enjoy the antics of it’s more animated protesting children defiling its treasured Christianity.

On the subject of preventing copycat behaviour. Had the authorities followed the Inspectors recommendation of rapidly installing police marksmen at Tottenham to take out the rioters, the disturbances would never have left London, and at least three innocent victims in Birmingham would be here to thank us now. Not that the Inspector could have guaranteed no loss of life at all – when you walk around with a brick in your hand, you take your own chances with what happens next, don’t you think ?

20 August 2012 at 18:23  
Blogger John Magee said...

Pryste

Don't hold your breath. it will never happen. Islam is now an ally of the Western Left. They both hate Western Christian Civilization. Every excuse or total silence is all we will get from the Left when it comes to the brutality that is innate to the cult of Islam.

20 August 2012 at 20:06  
Blogger Jeremiah Methuselah said...

I would like to associate myself with the above comment from Chauntrye Pryste, assuming the report is true, of course, always a good qualification.

20 August 2012 at 22:13  
Blogger Chauntrye Pryste said...

For an update, see William Oddie in the Cathlic Herald:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2012/08/20/an-11-year-old-girl-with-downs-syndrome-has-fallen-foul-of-pakistans-blasphemy-laws-should-we-really-continue-to-support-this-anti-christian-country/

21 August 2012 at 09:41  
Blogger Jon said...

John Magee said "Freedom of speech means you have the right to tell people what they do not want to hear". You should probably have left your comment there.

The Cathedral is a public space, unless God has put up "Keep Out" signs around his house and I hadn't noticed. Surely, a church is the definition of a public space - that's what it's for? Unless, once more, you are to pretend that the church itself has some magical characteristics over and above simply being a building where people meet.

I am reminded of a Galilean who said unpalatable political things in the temples of his day and was castigated for it by the authorities. Since you worship the Galilean, but deride the Russian women, I can only assume you are intellectually incoherent. In this little tale, you and the Inspector are the Pharisees. (Just an FYI - from memory, they weren't the good guys).

What's more, the Orthodox Church authorities, with their ally in the Kremlin trample all over all sorts of private property (ask Khorodorvsky and BP!) so let's not pretend they are rigorous exponents of property rights. These women did what they did because the press in their country isn't free to report political dissent unless it's impossible to avoid.

As for your point about not targeting Mosques - just because you're not protesting every injustice at the same time, doesn't automatically negate your protest of some of them. To pretend otherwise is absurd. Since you clearly feel so strongly, I can only assume that you are protesting regularly at your local mosque in their place? Didn't think so.

21 August 2012 at 12:37  
Blogger John Magee said...

Jon

Yes,The Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow is open to the public. So is your bank. Yet you can't go into your bank and cavort and frighten the bank customers or employees because you are upset with their banking policies or because they are capitalists who's banking investments or bank president you happen to hate. The bank management will call the police and have you arrested. As they have a right to do and should! Just because an the doors of a cathedral or church are open to the public doesn't mean anyone has the "right" to go into them and act in a way that insults or upsets believers or other visitors. The cathedral is open to the public but as soon as you step on it's property you are on private property. And YES. It's the same as if your next door neighbor came uninvited to a party you held at your house and started a rumpus in your living room. You have every right to call the police and have that person or persons aarrested for trespassing and causing a disturbance in your living room because you barking dog makes them angry.

21 August 2012 at 18:47  
Blogger len said...

'You do the crime you pay the time'is a saying I believe .

Perhaps 'Pussy Riot' believe 'doing the time' is worth paying the price for the publicity they have gained for their cause.

Ms Pankhurst chained herself to railings and another Lady (cannot remember her name) threw herself under the Kings racehorse to gain publicity for her cause .

Perhaps causing'public outrage' is the only way to draw attention to ones cause (not that I advocate it)

Jesus Himself probably caused a fair amount' of public outrage' when he threw the money lenders out of the Temple.

21 August 2012 at 20:09  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

len
How can you even hint at such a comparison between the Cleansing of the Temple and Pussy Riot's blasphemy?

Jesus did not go into His Father's House when He threw out the money changers (not lenders). He was in the courtyard of the Temple which is described as being filled with livestock and the tables of the money changers.

An equivalent outrage would have been Jesus entering the
Holy of Holies, the inner sanctuary of the Temple. Something He would never have done.

21 August 2012 at 21:46  
Blogger len said...

Dodo you seem to miss the point.

The 'bigger picture' is that sometimes the greater crime is to say and do nothing about social injustice. .

22 August 2012 at 08:29  
Blogger Chauntrye Pryste said...

The Little Girl. Further update...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2191384/In-Pakistan-illiterate-child-jailed-unknowingly-burning-Quran-Where-celebrities-protesting-her.html

...where, oh where is His Grace?

22 August 2012 at 11:10  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Chauntrye Pryste,

His Grace is not a news service and neither is he a journalist or reporter: his time is severely limited, and he does what he can. If this is inadequate for you, he suggests you revert to The Telegraph.

He is monitoring this appalling situation, but is not inclined to comment on Daily Mail reports because they have in the past been found somewhat wanting. His Grace is not, in any case, remotely influential in resolving international conflagrations. Indeed, he is not remotely influential in domestic matters either. A post here on the plight of this poor girl will achieve precisely nothing, other than satisfy your demands for verbiage. Pray for her.

22 August 2012 at 11:22  
Blogger Jon said...

John Magee - interesting that you draw the analogy between the Church in question and a bank. I hadn't realised that the primary purpose of the Church was to make a profit!

I'm not talking about the rights of the clergy to complain about what has happened (that's undeniable), I'm talking about whether they are right to complain about it, in the context of their supposed mission on earth.

It's funny - I sometimes comment on the Church being basically a private equity fund, but you're clearly a fully paid up subscriber and have totally forgotten its supposed original purpose!

22 August 2012 at 16:39  
Blogger Chauntrye Pryste said...

My Lord. After my most hearty recommendations and service to your Grace, may it please your Grace to know that it was never my intention to offer criticism of your Grace, but to contrast the level of publicity and comment that the actions of those who desecrated the Cathedral of Christ received with that of the unfortunate girl in Pakistan.
Indeed your Grace saw fit yourself to write expansively in the first instance comparing the actions of the desecrators with Dr Luther's Protestation at Wittenburg, although I as far as I am aware, Dr Luther neither desecrated the Church nor criticised His Majesty, the Holy Roman Emperor. Indeed, had he done either, then Lutheranism might have taken quite a different direction!
I share your Grace's suspicions of the Daily Mail, but point out that the information I have gleaned comes from Dr Oddie of the Catholic Herald and the historian and commentator, Michael Burleigh.
Your Grace is too modest in his protestation that he has no influence. Many of the powerful are aware of your Grace and his use of the internet to publicise failings that they would rather remain hidden from public view. Indeed, that is why your Grace commands such a wide audience.
I remain an admirer and follower of your Grace [though, regrettably, I fear we differ somewhat in Theology] and, as you suggest, will pray for her, her persecutors and for your Grace's wellbeing.

22 August 2012 at 18:47  
Blogger John Magee said...

Jon

I used a bank out of thin air as example of a privately owned building that serves the public daily and where certain behavior by visitors which threatens others who visit or work there can get you arrested. The choice had nothing to do with your connection between the Church and money. You made the connection between the two where non was intended. Typical liberal. Making assumptions with no basis whatsoever.

22 August 2012 at 21:12  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

len said...

"Dodo you seem to miss the point.
The 'bigger picture' is that sometimes the greater crime is to say and do nothing about social injustice."


Spoken like a true Catholic! Jesus, of course, promoted social justice and this is one of the great messages of Catholicism. Welcome aboard.

However, the real point that is escaping you is that Jesus used more appropriate methods than insulting God. He kept his outrage in the courtyard of the Temple and not inside His Father's House.

Understand now?

23 August 2012 at 00:35  
Blogger Jon said...

John, you made the connection - I just commented on it!

Apparently, you are typical of a certain strand of "Christian" on this site. If you can't win the argument, attack the person.

23 August 2012 at 13:35  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Jon

If that was an "attack", God help you should anybody ever call you names - you big girl's blouse!

24 August 2012 at 00:51  
Blogger Jon said...

Oh Dodo, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt - I'm reminded of the "mauled by a dead sheep" comment in both your cases. In your case, it's a dead flightless bird of very little brain, obviously!

24 August 2012 at 16:14  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Jon
You leave dead sheep alone. I know you have unusual interests, but really!

24 August 2012 at 20:32  
Blogger len said...

Dodo...... whatever would your Priest say?.

I hope you your religious performance is better in Church than it is here!.

24 August 2012 at 22:37  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

My Priest would have a good laugh and then indicate 'disapproval'. How shocking!

26 August 2012 at 01:38  
Blogger Urban Unitarians post words of inspiration said...

Good thing we don't live in an oppressive state with anachronistic laws penalising protest in churches.
Oh, apart from the 1860 Ecclesiastical Courts Jurisdiction Act...
http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/crucify.htm

28 August 2012 at 17:36  

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